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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I don't agree with the MN feminists. AIBU?

1007 replies

jennyvstheworld · 15/08/2011 10:17

I consider myself an active proponent of equality of opportunity and a stern critic of discrimination... and yet I find that I can't identify with many of the viewpoints I encounter on the MN feminism page (and often say so). AIBU?

OP posts:
evenlessnarkypuffin · 16/08/2011 18:56

The American stats on murder of children do make you wonder about the correlation between lack of access to free healthcare (for mental health issues) and filicide.

Portofino · 16/08/2011 18:57

Personally I think the debate is MUCH better when you have different viewpoints.

scottishmummy · 16/08/2011 19:06

well indeed who wants ayes you're Soooo right discussion
you have never been more right
or more feminist
apart from that last time of course of course

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 16/08/2011 19:09

So maybe there should be a recruitment drive. The feminist board does feel like a closed shop to a lot of mners. I've only just unhidden it.

scottishmummy · 16/08/2011 19:13

maybe be less arsey and unforgiving
commonality of peoples responses and reactions tell a story

organicgardener · 16/08/2011 19:15

If i'm not mistaken some poor bugger is being laced into as we speak.

Being called an MRA and has been reported.

I doubt people will have the stomach to post there and keep it zipped.

StewieGriffinsMom · 16/08/2011 19:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

organicgardener · 16/08/2011 19:18

Are you trying to teach me to have sex SGM?

Now you're really reaching.

I'll tell you what?

You have sex your way and i'll have sex my way.....your arrogance is noted.

sunshineandbooks · 16/08/2011 19:20

I think one of the reasons feminism gets such a bad name is because people seem to believe that it's anti men and that when we talk about the 'patriarchy' we mean that men are consciously involved in trying to keep women down. Men get defensive when faced with that attitude and women who know their partners are not like that get defensive on their behalf and dismiss feminism as having no relevance to them.

TBH before I had children I used to think like that too, despite believing in equality and knowing I was just as good as any man. The thing is feminists in the main do NOT believe that all, or even most, men are consciously and deliberately engaged in subjugating women (well a few notable misogynists are, but...). Most sexism/discrimination is done subconsciously, by women as well as men, simply because all it is doing is reinforcing the status quo. It's normal.

The patriarchy may not be a living, breathing thing but it does have a life of its own and it self-perpetuates. Patriarchy can be seen as simply another word for society. The name patriarchy is given instead of society simply to demonstrate that this particular society is male dominated. It is made up of individuals but it creates social norms that keep those individuals in check. And those social norms, because they have evolved over centuries (millennia) where the cultural dominance belonged to men, tend to support male dominance over women. It will take a long time to redress the balance even with equal rights legislation. As is the case with racism, which has been around far less than sexism.

The patriarchy damages many men as well as women. When it places derision on them for wanting to be a SAHD and 'failing to support their families'. When it places suspicion on them for wanting to work with children. When it doesn't allow them equal time to spend with their newborn child. When it portrays ridiculous machismo as ideal 'male' behaviour. When it calls sensitive boys 'sissies'. When it says "Oh men!" in that patronising way that implies men cannot manage to cook a meal/care for children/clean the house/cope when ill and are about as capable of multi-tasking as the average 3-year-old.

Feminism wants an end to these things as well as extra rights for women. In some cases they are two sides of the same coin and one will come as the direct result of the other.

Feminism is NOT anti-men. Anti-feminists OTOH want to keep men locked in their traditional gender roles just as much as they want women kept in theirs.

SiamoFottuti · 16/08/2011 19:21

Feminism gets a bad name because its just another way of making womens issues seem less important.

evenlessnarkypuffin · 16/08/2011 19:23

Puffin is fine. I was Narky, then Even Less Narky, but always Puffin Grin

Perhaps letting MN as a whole know what has been going on in the feminism section re targeted trolling with links to the relevant sites might help. Though I am loathe to give them the traffic. It's one thing to be rather sharp with regular MNers who disagree (which has happened) but what's happened lately is a sustained attempt to drive people off the board by a small number of very odd men.

Claw3 · 16/08/2011 19:23

Isnt that something that comes with experience Stewiegriffin? my parents never taught me how to give and receive pleasure, its something i learnt myself along the way.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 16/08/2011 19:25

Your first paragraph is spot on, sunshine. When I hear 'patriarchy', I assume it is made up of the male collective. That it is a conscious state of affairs. And then I want to stand in front of my sons and say 'BOLLOCKS'. Because it feels like demonising half the population.

BTW, I totally realise that I am discusiing feminism on this thread, but it somehow feels less scary than on the feminism board. Now that is fucked up.

scottishmummy · 16/08/2011 19:26

imo, feminism doesnt have bad name,i do think mn feminist board is harsh and unforgiving

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 16/08/2011 19:26

I like to call her Narky. She may have a voodoo chicken of me in her hand right now.

StewieGriffinsMom · 16/08/2011 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

organicgardener · 16/08/2011 19:32

SGM it's not a message it's nature.

I do hope other posters have the guts courage to denounce this.

Are you a sex expert SGM?

ThePosieParker · 16/08/2011 19:36

A few women that kill their children do so out of MH issues, it's the uncomfortable truth that some mothers can kill their children but they can and do and often for just being vile human beings.

That said men are more likely to abuse children. Out of all childcare workers 2% are men, whereas 60% of reported abuse is by men. WE know that women abuse, sexually, children too but by no means at the same rate.

jennyvstheworld · 16/08/2011 19:37

Sunshineandbrooks - I agree with everything you have written in your post @ 1920.

OP posts:
ThePosieParker · 16/08/2011 19:37

organic, it's not nature....most children aren't interested in actually having sex.

StewieGriffinsMom · 16/08/2011 19:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BBQFrenzy · 16/08/2011 19:38

WTF! Just spat out a good bit of Chablis reading OG's misinterpretation of SGM's comments about taking the pressure off teens to only think of as penetrative sex as 'proper' sex, as an attempt to give advice on how to have sex! Hilarious! OG I am warming to you with all this mock offense and hoity-toitiness. If it is leg-pulling you had me going for a while but I think you may have just over-egged the pudding Grin

organicgardener · 16/08/2011 19:39

Posieparker

It is nature and this issue isn't about children it's about teenagers.

Vaginal sex is natural.

If you are not comfortable with that someone could draw you a diagram explain it etc ?

organicgardener · 16/08/2011 19:40

BBQ i'm trying not to be offensive :)

ThePosieParker · 16/08/2011 19:52

OG....Funnily enough I used to be a teenager, and a girl and so I think I may have a little more idea than you.

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