I don't agree with the MN feminists. AIBU?

[jennyvstheworld]

I consider myself an active proponent of equality of opportunity and a stern critic of discrimination... and yet I find that I can't identify with many of the viewpoints I encounter on the MN feminism page (and often say so). AIBU?

sadly not surprised.most people murdered by a partner
still written down is grim reading

So it's depressingly the same as it ever was. Women can have all the rights they want so long as it doesn't upset the status quo, or have any impact at all on the position of men in society.

"Well if we're talking about the quality of citations then feminists win hands down. In all the arguments I have witnessed/taken part in on here, I have noticed that the feminists are much better at providing methodologically sound, peer-reviewed research. And most citations come from reputable sources such as government depts or the ONS. I am not surprised by this because as a feminist experience has taught me that many people are so unwilling to believe what we say that we have to be able to back up what we're saying with good, sound evidence. Whereas anti-feminists can say things like "women regularly lie about rape" without any call whatsoever to back up their claims."

Obviously, this is a completely objective observation

What an odd thread.

This is the second time (that I've noticed, in any case) where someone has come into AIBU - a very busy board with presumably some of the most traffic - to pit themselves against the 'MN feminists', in what blatantly looks, to the casual observer at least, like an attempt to get people to side with them against said feminists....

I am genuinely bemused that in this day and age there are people who are so bothered or threatened by feminism to do something like this! Women, as well. I totally get that you might not want to align yourself with feminism and even disagree with some or most of it. But in that case, why not just get on with your non-feminist life? Or even just voice your disagreement on issues as and when they arise? Why come onto the busiest board on one of the country's busiest forums and try to start a bun-fight or seemingly get people on side?

It's down-right weird, and I have to say totally comes across as if the OP expected everyone to pile in and agree with her. I say this, since I've never seen Jenny post anywhere except in the Feminism section to disagree with people there as, I wager, some sort of self-appointed 'voice of reason', 'saying what everyone else thinks but daren't come out with' type person. As such it's notable that a foray outside that section is to rail against it.

Who cares if you disagree with the MN feminists? Why on earth would you be unreasonable to do so? I feel a bit sorry for you but I certainly don't think you're unreasonable. Fill your boots, love.

As an aside, it is interesting to note how much grief the feminism section gets now that it has its own section and has grown since the days when it was just a tiny sub-section lost in the midst of the board.

Tilly dear, your entire post is based on your own perception of a very open question. Consequently, it says more about you than it does about anyone else.

I'm just telling you what it looks like Jenny, love. As a mostly lurker in the feminist section. There are a lot of us, you know. How do you think it grew from a small sub-board to a section in its own right?

And I'm quite happy with what my post says about me! You've lost your jovial tone all of a sudden though, I note.

OK, can't be bothered to plough through 20 pages of this, I've only got to the end of page 1!

I rarely read the Feminist threads either purely because they remind me of those sad, bitter old soldiers who still rant about 'Gerry' and the 'Japs' - they don't seem to realise that they won the war years ago. They don't even want to win the war because they enjoy the fight too much.

I don't think they want equality, they want female supremasism.

supremacism

or perhaps supremacy! Who knows?

i am a bit confused- how have feminists 'won the war' when amongst other thingfs, there is still FGM, when the conviction rate for rape is so low and victims are not still not consistently taken seriously by police (in this country), when female foetuses are aborted for being female, when there are honour killings...

Does insisting that these injustices are righted make me an old bitter general, or desiring female supremacy?

Or should i just airily think 'i'm all right me' cos i am v unlikely to e.g. face being honour killed myself

One can agree with some of the Feminists all of the time, with all of the Feminists some of the time...

(att Mrs Lincoln)

But I do think there is an ishoo on the board - seems to be a small coterie/clique/coven that are just barking hard core, and who are very vocal and vociferous and do tend to put others off.

Fellatio if you really believe 'feminism won the war' years ago I'm not surprised you don't see the relevance of feminism and think we're all a bunch of female supremacists.

That's ok. You're entitled to your opinion. Even though you're wrong.

We still have a gender pay gap.

80% of MPs are men. 96% of company directors are men.

Women's careers are still significantly hindered by having children, whereas mens are not.

Childcare in the UK is one of the most expensive in the UK.

1 in 4 women will be raped or experience domestic violence.

2 women a week are killed by their partners/former partners (compared to 0.5 men - a four-fold difference).

Despite the fact that only 6% of rapes are false allegations, only 6% result in prosecution (compared to 34% for other violent crimes).

There are rafts of data from reputable sources that show how women still have a long way to go before they have full political, economic, social and legal equality both in this country and worldwide. The problem seems to be that for many people any amount of data can be disproved instantly by one anecdote.

most expensive in the world sorry.

chibi I realise that those are all serious issues that need resolving but I think many hardcore feminists do womankind a disservice by putting to much energy into imagining slights on women in the western world. Speaking for Britain (and I would imagine many parts of Europe and the US/Canada) we have equality, and in many respects we have positive discrimination for women.

The focus should be on areas in the world where women still get an appalling deal, and are little more than chattels. The feminist board to me often looks too much like a place where Nero fiddles, or just gazes at his own navel, while Rome burns.

Yes Tilly - stop posting your opinions for goodness sake! As Jenny has rightly pointed out posting opinions let's people know what you think and thus are just highly subjective anyway!

Do we have positive discrimination for women in this country Fellatio? Could you give me some examples please?

"I think many hardcore feminists do womankind a disservice by putting to much energy into imagining slights on women in the western world. "

Like what?

If we have equality fellatio why do most positions of power go to men, why did police tell women who complained of being raped by worboys to 'fuck off, a black cab driver would never do that', why do you have a statistically good chance of being sexually assaulted and/or experiencing domestic violence and on and on and on

i can see how for a fabulously well to do woman of a certain class it might be possible to insulate yourself from all of this, but that is not many women's lived reality here in the uk

BBQ.

Fellatio - Sunshine's post highlights issues faced by UK women. Would you care to address those?

Gotta love non-feminists who tell feminists how it should be done.

I've lived in parts of Europe and the US, I'd say the UK is more woman friendly in the workplace than any other country I've lived in. There is more to do equality but we need to pick the major battles ( pay and childcare IMO), and also be clear on where it's actually misogyny rather than other causes eg closed shops ( eg company directorships)

And bah humbug to statistics in this space - it's the most politicized space going, I'd treat any number with complete scepticism.

For me Fawcett has more relevance than FEminist groups.