Hang them, scum, take their kids, feral brats, stop their benefits, take away their rights, forcibly sterilise them...

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

are just a few opinions I have seen on this board in the last few days. AIBU to think that people who hold those opinions are a bit thick unpleasant and wrong?

Apart from the fact that plenty of the rioters were so-called productive members of society who apparently saw an opportunity to get some free stuff, we live in a democracy and if you take away people's human rights that extends to everybody - even you. If you stop benefits you send children into more poverty, which is a major factor in children growing up to become angry, violent and criminal adults. Remove children and do what with them? Place them with the thousands of suitable and willing foster carers who are hanging around twiddling their thumbs? And what about the consequences of removing children from their families - yes, more criminal, poorly educated and challenging adults. Parent and baby placements? Oh yes, we have so many of those! All well funded and easy to access! Never mind that the courts can and do place DCs in foster care over P&B placements because there aren't enough and that ShinyDave and his crew are doing nothing but cut social care budgets...oh yes, great idea.

It's not only our society that is fucked, it's the world. We are one of the most developed countries in the world and all people want is the opportunity to get stuff they haven't earned. Where does that impulse come from?

Inthenightkitchen - a chip pan fire is a very different thing from being burnt out of your home! One is an accident and the other is a criminal act - so yes, I see a difference.

But, hey, if these riots are nothing to you, let's not worry eh??

"Nice straw man. I didn't say anyone 'was sticking it to the man'. I didn't try and justify anything or excuse anyone involved. The violence is despicable. However, a small amount of despicable behavior, and a lot of petty criminality, is being talked up into something it's not."

No, but you did say that you didn't see what was wrong with a few trainer shops being smashed up. You're talking it down into something it's not.

And this

"A woman jumping from a second floor window into the arms of firemen? Not the sort of thing that is caused every day by a chip pan or an electric blanket then? Yes, a large business was burnt down in a fire. Several men were run over by a car, 3 of roughly 4,000 people who will be killed by cars this year. So far the only person murdered was a looter shot by another rioter. Not sure how 'Petty criminal kills other petty criminal in Croydon' is front page material though."

And are you saying that it's no big thing that a woman had to jump for her life because that kind of thing happens every day in domestic fires? WTF? Those men were killed trying to protect their business, NOT in an accident. It is not a road accident statistic, it is now a murder enquiry.

A while ago you were saying that no-one was getting mugged, I posted you three examples of muggings during the riots. I suppose that's not that bad because people get mugged every day, huh?

so now what cupcake do we have to trade of our terrible family back grounds and how well we did to not become knife welding criminals, i would suggest to you that MOST people that live on council estates etc dont become what the rest of the country expects them to be. i also dont think my family back ground or up bring gives me a right to judge other because someone always had it worse and every one copes in different ways.

Can someone provide a link to evidence that there was less crime before benefits?

No? That's because it's not true. Crime has fallen vastly since Victorian days, now that we live in a society which doesn't just write off the poor and those who are in danger of falling into a life of crime.

The rioters are being punished according to the law. Some people on here and FB appear to want people locked up for life, sterilised and possibly killed for er stealing a telly

Also - being on benefits is crap - it's not actually the life of Riley, it's the bare minimum you can live on. This 'benefits culture' people bang on about is just poor people with few prospects who have given up participating in society. These people have existed forever, and most successive governments have put in place support for them like training, access to job opportunities, incentives etc. The problem is that it all goes tits up whenever we get a Tory govt and rhetoric demonises them again.

It is appalling when people deliberately downplay events which have ruined people's lives and livelihoods. I think a few people here need to develop some empathy for the actual victims of these senseless riots rather than the perpetrators.

I'm just saying that the excuses are bullshit, spookshowangel. There was a rich grammar-school girl involved, a primary school mentor, a postman... people in employment, from all classes.

It's about no moral compass, not about poor little lambkins having not enough hugs from mummy when they were toddlers. They're just bastards who want stuff for nothing. No morals, no sense of community, no regard for life.

"It is appalling when people deliberately downplay events which have ruined people's lives and livelihoods. I think a few people here need to develop some empathy for the actual victims of these senseless riots rather than the perpetrators."

I am totally with you, here. I can't actually believe what I've just read, tbh.

I would really like to know from the bleeding heart, wooly, hippy middle class apologists for the subhuman SCUM who committed these crimes what they would do if this had been directly on your doorstep, if they were smashing your windows, burning down your business?

"that's ok, it's society's fault, the Government, the economy, no youth clubs blah blah blah, carry on, i'll get you some more bricks to throw". No, you would be saying the same as others who have a grip on reality. It's easy to sit in a puddle of middle class smugness far removed from the reality of actually living in the same community as these people.

I grew up with these types, went to school with them, live near them, they ARE like that, some people have the morals of a slug and nothing is going to change that, the only solution in my opinion is harsher consequences for their actions so ordinary people don't have to suffer for them.

A couple of weeks ago my pensioner MIL was slapped round the head on a bus for no reason by a complete stranger (woman in 40's) and is now too scared to go on public transport by herself, funnily enough I am finding it difficult to come up with socio-political reasons why she did this and would settle for ripping her head off if I got the chance (I won't, being a law abiding citizen with morals, but am angry enough to feel like it).

and i am just saying that though i agree like everyone else on here that the riot are disgusting they are symptomatic and completely unsurprising. and show a need for change on many lvls but i dont think hanging and enforced sterilisation is one of them.

fluffy since you know bollocks all about me i am going to ignore you comment mostly because you called me middle class which actually made me laugh.

I am pretty sure I haven't actually said what my position is sprogger just that riots etc are often the harbingers of wars and revolution.

As others have pointed out on this thread and others, people are getting desperate. It would appear the money is gone who lost it and where it went doesn't matter as much as it being gone. The government has been cutting benefits and vital services, the gap between rich and poor is huge, the world is unstable at the moment - why would the UK be immune to that?

The strong survive, right now the 'strong' is the dominant culture, but it would appear there is now another strong culture showing its power. And basically saying 'What are you going to do about it?'.

I would riot and loot if I felt it was necessary for my survival or if I believed that it was a way to force change. I would also defend my own territory if I believed it was necessary.

"subhuman SCUM"

Made me think of

I would estimate the the more clever of the dicks being hauled in front of the magistrates over the next few days are bricking themselves knowing that their cases are being passed onto crown courts. I bet the feral little street rats were inwardly chuckling to themselves as they were scurrying off with their loot that they'd only get three-six months if caught. Perhaps five years in clinky will stop them feeling so smug.

Is there enough money to give all of them custodial sentences though?

If not, what actual punishment is there for the rioting/looting?

DoMeDon Thu 11-Aug-11 10:15:25

I will say again that BEFORE benefits the street were not rife with crime as people had a sense of self respect not self entiltement!

You have got to be fucking joking

I think there are far too many couldn't-care-less parents with a 'let the teachers/social workers/police sort it out' attitude.

I think if these parents were made to pay it might make a difference - heavy fines for kids that truant and commit crime - deducted at source either from their benefits or their pay.

I think when feckless parents own lifestyles are affected they might then take their own kids in hand.

Sprog, do calm down, your posts weren't of great enought interest for me to comment on directly, I was talking about a significant number of posters on this website and the bleeding heart media social commenters in general, that have been spouting this nonsense in the last few days.

"I will say again that BEFORE benefits the street were not rife with crime as people had a sense of self respect not self entiltement!"

Yes, and the police were formed in 1829 to tell old ladies the time.

For much of the last 180 years crime has been so out of control that we transported children for stealing handkerchiefs: read the records yourself. Didn't deter the the theft or anything else. Gangs ruled the East End into the 1960s.

Anybody who thinks there was some golden time when we had hanging, no benefits, etc and Respectable People lived in peace really does deserve OP's description of thick.

YANBU

"Is there enough money to give all of them custodial sentences though?

If not, what actual punishment is there for the rioting/looting?"

I think that what is happening at the minute is that the people previously of good record are being let off with cautions/fines. The ones who have previous are being heard at the crown courts in September, for sentencing. Seems sensible.

Ha ha we had so many criminals pre-benefits that we had to ship them off to Australia.

Cupcakes, maybe that was in my subconscious as I've seen it so many times! :o

Yeah, some punishment that was.

in the night kitchen
your views (and yes, you are entitled to your own views) are, in my opinion,
part of what caused these problems in the first place

I'm just working through this thread and laughing at some of the opinions on here... EricNorthamsMistress I'm with you... the rest of you need to go back and read some Dickens. They weren't just A level texts to frustrate 17 year olds, they were a description of what life was like with a dirt poor underclass that was neglected, shunned and treated like scum. If you treat people like the dirt on your shoe then they will behave with utter disrespect. Show them some respect and they will grow. I'm not talking about nibbling around the edges with this scheme and that project. I'm talking about a cultural shift towards responsibility for everyone in our society. Phrases like "chav scum" need to be expunged from our vocabulary.