Hang them, scum, take their kids, feral brats, stop their benefits, take away their rights, forcibly sterilise them...

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

are just a few opinions I have seen on this board in the last few days. AIBU to think that people who hold those opinions are a bit thick unpleasant and wrong?

Apart from the fact that plenty of the rioters were so-called productive members of society who apparently saw an opportunity to get some free stuff, we live in a democracy and if you take away people's human rights that extends to everybody - even you. If you stop benefits you send children into more poverty, which is a major factor in children growing up to become angry, violent and criminal adults. Remove children and do what with them? Place them with the thousands of suitable and willing foster carers who are hanging around twiddling their thumbs? And what about the consequences of removing children from their families - yes, more criminal, poorly educated and challenging adults. Parent and baby placements? Oh yes, we have so many of those! All well funded and easy to access! Never mind that the courts can and do place DCs in foster care over P&B placements because there aren't enough and that ShinyDave and his crew are doing nothing but cut social care budgets...oh yes, great idea.

It's not only our society that is fucked, it's the world. We are one of the most developed countries in the world and all people want is the opportunity to get stuff they haven't earned. Where does that impulse come from?

What if now that the mob has had a taste of its power, the 'new' culture decides that they will not submit to the old one's laws and courts and prisons?

That's exactly what I have been wondering about Morloth.

This thread is moving too fast for me...Morloth, I'd suggest that labour is hardly what you'd call 'left' any more so either way, no one was voting for 'liberal lefties' or the Socialist Worker's Party would have stormed the ballot box.

I don't think trying to work out a REASON for people behaving like animals is apologising for their behaviour is it? Ultimately taking away benefits/housing etc etc isn't going to solve this problem in the long term. Trying to get to the root of the problem and work out what makes people behave in this way is a legitimate response.

From the outside looking in.

It looked to me like a powerful demonstration of the weakness of the 'old' culture.

The only real resistence they met was from other strong cultures that stood up for themselves.

Otherwise the police seemed powerless to act and most people (quite sensibly) cowered in their homes.

What is to stop a repeat? These people (and in 'these' people I include all the rioters/looters regardless of socio economic class) have just demonstrated not only their disrespect for the rule of law but the amount of power they have in ignoring it.

thats not how mob mentality works. people get pissed off the come together the get grrrrr and then they get bored. you can see that even on here already the lvl of riot thread are less etc.

Morloth, as someone you'd probably deride as "soft" because I THINK about things, I would like to see everyone involved punished via the courts and rule of law. THEN after they've served their sentences, I would like to see some serious top-level, systemic analysis of WHAT has lead to this and HOW we prevent this happening again. I would like to see the outcome of this thinking applied to policy - not just security & public order policy, but education, welfare, parenting intervention and social programmes.

Completely agree.

'Society made them that way' - yes it did! It did! To ignore that and call for hangings and floggings is supremely thick! I'm not advocating soft or no punishments, but it is essential to analyse why this happened in order to try to prevent similar events happening again. There is something very very wrong with UK society and it needs to be addressed.

Oh no, we musn't call the ones setting our cities alight and hurting decent human beings "scum", must we? Wouldn't want to hurt their delicate flower-like constitution, would we?

FFS.

These wasn't lightweight thuggery, akin to scrawling graffiti on a bus stop then not worrying about the ASBO coming through the post. This was awful, awful violence. Most of them didn't even have their faces covered (thick as mince) so there's your regard for the law. FGS, I grew up in a"sink" estate, from a single family. Funnily enough, you didn't see me or any of mine crawling out of the window of JD Sports grinning like a demented Cheshire cat because I'd bagged a free pair of Nikes.

i agree with eric!!!!!

The official trigger for the Gordon Riots is a red herring, IMO. There's some interesting parallels between then and the current situation. Swinging taxes, political and financial instability, massive inequality and social exclusion, a privileged and untouchable ruling elite, rioting and political change in other countries, unwinnable foreign wars...

You need to take the long view. Reductionist 'soundbite' politics are of little use here.

*Single-parent family.

No sprogger I am asking you would you personally sanction force used in your name to enforce the current rule of law?

If the answer is yes, then how is that any different from the people who are baying for blood.

Reason is great MrsGravy and I am not saying that how this happened shouldn't be looked at, but it did happen and what is going to happen to the people who did it? Realistically, Not Much is the answer - so I have some sympathy for those who want blood.

With the young offenders, surely this is a chance to change them, change how they view society and how society views them. Some of them ARE angry, some of them do feel victimised. I totally abhor the riots, but they weren't just mindless.
If we can get to the kids now, we have a chance to make them productive adults, surely that's better than the alternative of a cycle of prison sentences for steadily worsening crimes?

Ooops,thread moved on since I posted

I think the trainer shop comment was a wind up.

i really cant stand it when people say i grew up in crack den or what ever, because you obviously either had good parents or had help sorting your life out or what ever, but as many people are frankly just ignoring a lot of these looter are not from "sink" estates they have jobs they have family's they are just are just chancing there fucking arms, they are not the gun toting "underclass scum" they are normal people that probably went home with their new tellys and had dinner.

I think it is pretty clear that most of the rioters viewed it as a weakness sprogger.

Yes, lovely they are being processed by the courts. But it seemed obvious that the people who did this don't view the society they were attacking as their society (how that came about might be irrelevant at this point).

So after they have been punished by a court they don't recognise, what is to stop them from doing it again? What if the balance of power shifts? As has been pointed out money has been cut from the police, the hosipitals all sorts of things. If enough people get angry enough then it won't be a riot it will be a war, and no amount of understanding will stop it.

It is fascinating and terrifying all at the same time.

ITNK - Were you and your son on telly last night?

yabu

i get its very complex but for years people have been concerned around the social issues that are worsening. asbos, shit parents, etc. whther we like ot or not we have a sector of society that see financial incentive to bring yet more poor fucked up kids into the world

its not the only issue. but its a big problem

so to call people that have a concern "thick" is somewhat misguided

and to say "and all people want is the opportunity to get stuff they haven't earned." is an insult to shop owners that have had their places trashed

"i really cant stand it when people say i grew up in crack den or what ever, because you obviously either had good parents or had help sorting your life out or what ever, but as many people are frankly just ignoring a lot of these looter are not from "sink" estates they have jobs they have family's they are just are just chancing there fucking arms, they are not the gun toting "underclass scum" they are normal people that probably went home with their new tellys and had dinner."

What? You mean you don't like it when your ready-made excuses for these twats are challenged? Not everyone who comes from an unsteady home sinks to this. It's an insult to suggest that they do. You know nothing of my background. I can give you some examples of things that have happened in my family that would make your hair curl. I still haven't felt the urge to destroy someone's livelihood or set fire to a home with kids asleep in it.

Awww, bless. Went home after smashing through shops and frightening the shit out of the locals then went and had their bangers and mash whilst watching Homes Under The Hammer on their new tele'. Heartwarming picture, that.

Oh that's allright then! Peoples homes just accidentally caught fire as well, even though people were shouting down to them that their were children asleep above the flats

As for being insured, so fucking what? Some people have worked hard all their lives building up a business just for someone to come along and burn it down and that's ok in your eyes?

Thought the heading of the post sounded somewhat harsh, BUT i agree really.
The Police need to clamp down more severely on these riotors and those pilfering and steeling. I think these hooligans have nothing better to do with their day and Enoch Powel was right.... we should not have allowed so many immigrants into such a small island as Britain.

Those guilty of hooligans rioting and criminal behaviour should never again be allowed benefits.... They should have to work or go hungry..