Hang them, scum, take their kids, feral brats, stop their benefits, take away their rights, forcibly sterilise them...

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

are just a few opinions I have seen on this board in the last few days. AIBU to think that people who hold those opinions are a bit thick unpleasant and wrong?

Apart from the fact that plenty of the rioters were so-called productive members of society who apparently saw an opportunity to get some free stuff, we live in a democracy and if you take away people's human rights that extends to everybody - even you. If you stop benefits you send children into more poverty, which is a major factor in children growing up to become angry, violent and criminal adults. Remove children and do what with them? Place them with the thousands of suitable and willing foster carers who are hanging around twiddling their thumbs? And what about the consequences of removing children from their families - yes, more criminal, poorly educated and challenging adults. Parent and baby placements? Oh yes, we have so many of those! All well funded and easy to access! Never mind that the courts can and do place DCs in foster care over P&B placements because there aren't enough and that ShinyDave and his crew are doing nothing but cut social care budgets...oh yes, great idea.

It's not only our society that is fucked, it's the world. We are one of the most developed countries in the world and all people want is the opportunity to get stuff they haven't earned. Where does that impulse come from?

I think one answer is to tackle gang culture. Research has shown that boys with absent fathers will latch onto older teenage boys as they reach their teens, and these older boys will become their father figures. In inner cities, partic London this is a big problem - and obviously London was where this all started. The Blackberry messages that initiated the riots evidenced this, and of normally warring gangs coming together against the police.

I'm no expert, but inner city gangs are normally very insular - governed by postcodes - sticking to their own territory - so it is quite easy and convenient for the rest of society to ignore them. A lot of the violence is inter-gang, not having a huge effect on wider society.

The thing that worries me about this whole thing is that I wonder if the actual instigators/worst offenders will be caught at all - the ones who were one step ahead of the police all night - and had completely covered their heads and faces. I fear that the 'copycats' and bystanders who just got caught up in the whole thing, and who didn't even have the forethought to cover their faces (!) - were the ones caught by the police easily on the night/ with CCTV footage afterwards - the soft target if you like. Lots have said they ran into looted shops 'in a moment of madness' or 'just cos everyone else was doing it' (seen these comments already from those in court) - what if these dimbos were easily caught precisely because they were not the hardened criminals who instigated the whole thing?

I do think those convicted should be treated harshly - and I mean along the lines that they are doing now (not sterilisation etc!) But, this behaviour must be punished harshly to act as a deterrent for the future. Maybe some daft bystander will think twice next time before looting trainers if they get a 3 year jail sentence and a criminal record.

Having said that, I do agree OP is right that we need to examine the underlying causes of this social unrest - however this must NOT be mistaken for, or sound like empathy for the rioters! We are talking root causes in society, not saying 'poor little xxxx, doesn't know any better, is a product of his upbringing' etc. Criminality MUST be condemned and punished, otherwise society goes off the moral path. As it has in fact.

Winston Smith's article struck a chord with me - underage offenders are treated very gently, and (to roughly quote) ' are treated as though they are victims of the very crimes they have committed'. I just don't think this is helpful to the individual or to society - clearer boundaries are needed.

winstonsmith33.blogspot.com/2011/08/riots-in-london-are-culmination-of.html

I agree with above poster to an extent. The trouble is, I think we all know the underlying causes. Depravation; breakdown of family life; gang culture; Benefits Culture; a total disregard for others and lack of moral compass; a sense of having not much to lose. All these things were ? to a greater or lesser extent ? factors in the riots. So, I guess, it is complex.
What we do know, however, is that years ? decades ? of woolly measures to try tackle the aforementioned issues have not made one iota of difference. These issues are now more deeply ingrained than ever. So, a new approach is definitely needed and if that approach means pissing off a few of the liberal-left ? whose ideas have held sway for way too long ? then I?m all for it.

"maypole1 Being homeless will not = more crime their are lots of rough sleeps in the uk they were not the ones looting I suggest if one has to worry about were you will be sleeping tonight looting would be the last thing on your mind"

Oh dont be so naive, any convicted rioters evicted from their homes will end up being housed in either B&Bs or private rented accomodation (David Cameron has said this) , and who will end up paying for their rent there? Certainly wont be them, but the taxpayer - again.

And regardless of whether you are worrying about where you will sleep and you saying looting will be the last thing on their mind - I disagree. All humans need to eat and if someone has no money to buy food the choices are rob money to buy some or steal some so no they wont be thinking of looting TVs etc but they will have to get food.

And Im not sympathetic to the criminals at the expense of the victims at all, I just cant see why people think this will solve anything.

duckdodgers - it may not solve anything but there does come a point where people think, enough is enough. There is a certain retribution element to dealing with criminals and rightly so. Moreover, it is not as if the softly softly approach of the past 20 years has solved anything either. IS IT?

Look I can see why people are angry and fed up, I would be to if my house and livelihood were destroyed by mindless rioters. And yes I get angry thinking there are people in our society who think the world owes them a living. I dont feel Im liberal at all, I think the benefit system should be there for people in need, and every morning work as I drive of to work it annoys me that there are countless more people not working who could.

I dont particularly care about how these criminals will eat or not - but people do have to eat and this could mean increased shoplifting etc etc. Thats all im trying to point out - when all this furore has died down and people have had their benefits withdrawn - what then?? I dont want anyone I care about to be a victim just because some thug needs food.

Its the legal sytem that should be toughened up, I dont disagree with that! Far too many judges are out of touch with reality and far too many criminals get too short sentences, parole too early.

I agree with finding the underlying causes and attempting to fix them, but something needs to be done to stop them first.

You can talk underlying causes til you're blue in the face and meanwhile 68 year old men are being kicked to death.

I agree with Dapne.
I think a huge amount of the kids got caught in the moment and the adreniline.
And the leading perpetuators, who kept their faces covered may well get away.
They are probably hard core criminals anyway and are not worried about the consequences.

agree beagleeyes

I think there are different levels here

some are very bad people ,that deserve prison, we know that

some are stupid twats who followed the siren call of a mates text message, blazed it up, and now have ruined their familys life

I think they will comwe down harsh as they dont want it to happen again, bUt as an outcomes some people will be harsly punished

and there ARE underlying issues, I dont excuse anyones behaviour but we cant brush it under the carpet either

BIG FUCKED UP MESS

I'm curious to know - cos I've not seen it anywhere.

How many people took part in these 'riots', received stolen goods, were parents to dependent children who were involved etc etc Ten thousand, 50 thousand, more?

I'm struggling to understand what proportion of these offenders will be identified, arrested, charged, sentenced, evicted, have their benefits stopped etc etc.

How long this will go on? Until, our police/justice system is completely overwhelmed?

Id like to know how many arnt on benefits and don't live in council houses

The reason this all started is because there is an underclass of people that do not have a job - not because they don;t want one but because they can't even read - they have no idea how to use instructions for things or pay a cheque in or fill in an application form - these people are bred by women who really aren't intersted in having a family to bring them up to be good human beings they have kids because they too can't actually earn a decent enough amount of money by working because they knew that they would just get pregnant and all would be fine - benefits for single mums went up by something like 87% under labour - that is why we are int this situation - being a non productive member of society is actually a career choice and they aren;t even having kids who will pay my old age pension they are having kids who will never have a job, never pay and tax and will just take take take.

MadameCastafiore - pretty much everything you said is true. In fact, there was a time in the not too distant past where the feckless behaviour you describe would have been frowned upon - by both left and right of the political spectrum. Things have changed however and I have no doubt some fuck-wit will shortly be along accusing you of reading the Daily Mail.

Of course it's all single parents fault, as they are the only ones who breed children who don't contribute to society arnt they?

Maybe their are more women claiming benefits now because there are more feckless men who leave and never pay child support.

You don't know how many of these women are divorced or how many claim top up benefits because they are on low wages

And you don't know how many just lied on their back for the first arse who paid them attention their is a growing number of women who are having several children for different men who have already have serval children with different women a lot of these people have never been or will
Be married

news.sky.com/home/article/16048584

There's a guy in here who has a child god help us I very much doubt he is married and certain the mother of his child knows he is a theif.

news.sky.com/home/article/16048584

And you don't know how many didn't just lie on their backs, either way I'm not stupid enough to think all single parents are bad and all couples make great parents

So what? There's a university student who's dads a millionaire who got caught with half of currys in the back of her car

I bet you will find more couples now claim benefits also, as the amount you can earn and still be entitled to some top up has increased

I don't know where he gets this 80% more paid to single parents from.

It's rubbish, for a single parent on full benefits, they did not get 80% more. Labour did pay childcare and tax credits to working single parents which many couples were entitled to too!