feral teenage mum rioter- does she deserve her council flat and her child?

[porcamiseria]

www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23977196-shame-of-the-mother-who-saw-her-bad-daughter-looting-in-tottenham.do

I get that there are underlying issues, and that castigating the "scum" underclass is not going to acheive anything but this story for me, epitimises things

how can anyone defend her right to be a mother, and her right to benefits and a council flat? now she will go to prison, her poor child will either go to his grandmother or into care, and the cycle continues

something needs to be done to disincentivise girls like this from having children. I am not advocating sterilisation, or having kids wrought off their mothers in labour ward BUT we have a society where girls like this have babies, and they are the kids that end up rioting

people say that education and support is the answer, but in some cases people should NOT have any more kids and I think we are being far too liberal, she's a bad un. end of.

" I was brought up in a very poor part of the country on straitened means." Doh!

PamSco - you are exactly the sort of person that is needed to go into schools, tell them how did it. Show them that you can have aspirations and you can fulfil them.

Rocky12 thats not a good enough excuse.

If the fathers are on benefits, you take a substantial amount out. None of this 3 quid a week crap - single mothers on benefits have to spend the vast majority of their banafit money on the children, why shouldnt the men?

And actually, its a myth that "most" of them are on benefits, I know alot of single mothers and only one of the fathers claims from the state (and he still actually works). The father of my child was not only high in the army, he now has his own buisness, yet the CSA still havent got a penny from him to support our child.

Funny, because if I didnt pay my council tax or a speeding fine, they'd soon get that money out of me.

If a woman on benefits didnt feed, clothe or shelter her children because she wanted to spend her benefit money on herself, socila services would become involved. Why should it be different for the men? Prison for absent fathers and then they wont even need the benefit money - problem solved.

simple answer: if you have never worked/paid into the social security system, then you should get no benefits or council house at all, regardless of how many children you have. (Exception is those who have always been genuinely too ill/disabled to work)

mx5 what would you do with all the homeless and destitue?

pamsco, not all teenage mums are bad, we all know that. But alot are, sorry. And I would like to see the bad ones disincentivsed from having babies

Thats does not uqate to saying you should not have been born, in no way does it

and as for the dads, fuck where do we even start?????? I think unfortunately as women bring the kids into the world, its starts with them

but it does land like the women are being blamed and not the men, and I am sorry of I have added to this

Hang on - has this site been renamed "misodgyny net" in my absence? Since when has all societies ills been the fault of pregnant teens? Or women in general. As far as I am concerned one of the big issues in this is the utter lack of regard or respect we attribute to young MEN. Clearly they are just animals raised by feral breeders, incapable of making their own decisions. Trapped they all are by those little lolitas into having baby after baby then leaving the state to raise them. For god sake.

Perhaps if we started treating the sex with penises as though they also had the brains to take responsibility for thier own actions they may also start to consider the same thing. Instead its all the fault of women. In the last few days I have read that it is because women go to work, women have babies too young to get flats, women who dont have jobs should be steralised, women dont have the ambition or decency to raise their kids properly and this is all from other WOMEN.

It is a bloody joke frankly and when I see a thread that works out how boys and young men can get to a place where they understand that being a man includes responsibilities as well as freedoms instead of this utter tripe I will cheer.

spudulika - it's common for council and other tenancies to have "good behaviour" clauses, so you can already be evicted for a number of offences.

This is sparingly used. But I think it would be right to use it where someone has been restoring and burning the neighbourhood. For that person must have such a low opinion of the place to wish to destroy it, and endanger the lives of their own community. Better by far for the wider community to remove someone who has actively tried to destroy it. And better for the individual to have a fresh start.

But social services dont become involved do they Killed.

They allow often terrible conditions and situations to continue until eventually something happens or the ultimate - a child is murdered. Social services are reluncant to get involved Baby P etc. The house was literally a pig sty, all sorts of men were coming and going, Peter had been to hospital time after time but if they cannot stop this they are certainly not going to be able to question a mother on what she is spending her money on. Are fags, mobile, Sky going to be questioned if the child is undernorished and dressed almost in rags.

But it does start with us doesnt it, we have the power to decide to become pregnant. If we dont use precautions then we have 'decided' to have a baby - end of story. Women have never had this sort of power before over our bodies.

agree rocky, the only reasonable short term answer might be hostels

long terms, get the dads to take responsibility and raise their aspirations, thats why "naice" middle class girls have their abortions, they have aspirations.

If I had got pregnant in my teens there is NO WAY I could have taken on the responsibility of a baby, I had little money and besides - I was enjoying myself too much. So, I made sure that I didnt!

Its fine to say move the people to other areas if they have trashed their own but would you like them living next door to you!

porc who plays judge and jury in your good mum, bad mum world?

My mum stole food to feed me when I was young when she didn't have a penny. What would have happened to her in your ideal world?

For goodness sake - it's dead easy to mouth off and then when confronted by the very 39-year-old baby someone would have prevented the birth of and say - oh I didn't mean you.

Do we live in a civilised society or do we live in a world where each person believes they have the right to determine who should be housed and who should be sterilised?

There is no sticking plaster solution of widening the gulf between the disenfranchised and "so-called" polite society - we have a systemic issue with engagement across society.

The answers on this thread, though a natural biological response, of casting out the undesirables is naive in the extreme.

no Rocky, Conception starts with a man and a woman. And the man is equally responsible for the conception or non-conception of the child. There are these things called condoms. And respect for one's partner. Etc.

btw where's the brick gone?

but Pam she DIDN'T mean you, of course. She means those scummy kids over there. The ones who shouldn't have been born. Who are a drag on her perfect little world where women, and especially mothers, are entirely responsible for everything, starting with all forms of contraception and the behaviour of men.

Should convicted rioters be evicted from privately-rented accommodation as well then? What about rioters with jobs and/or mortgages? Should they be sacked? Should they have their assets seized by having their homes confiscated and sold to help pay for the damage they've caused? Why should the poorest rioters be punished by law AND left homeless and destitute while wealthier criminals are not?

Oh that's alright then.

I really hate it when I'm personally told I shouldn't have been born or housed, especially when I see all the tax I pay to support the very people that would have tarred and feathered me mam.

Oh MrsFlitter I think they only want to evict people who like JD Sports.

Not Hunter wellies. But that may change tomorrow when they find Pippa M smashing the Jack Willis window in at Sloan Sq without spilling her frappacino.

sorry you have to listen to this sort of shit Pam, I know it's everywhere

well, MrsFlitter, as we know from the Daily Fail:

1. all rioters are 'benefit scum'
2. benefit scum (even worse than Public Sector Scum) are worthy only of kicking and starvation. After they are sterilised.

I've read the article. I don't agree with what this woman has done, but I get the feeling she didn't have the best of starts herself.

Hey it doesn't bother me personally but I do wonder what a young girl who is looking for support from the esteemed Mumsnet population might feel reading how worthless people consider her.

Has anyone thought of that? Has anyone thought that your 15 year old daughter (if you have one) just might have one drink to many and might need help... And lordy what does she see? Her mam PUBLISHING on teh net how people like her should be gassed like a rabbit.

Oh hang on - she might be one of the good single mums...

Why stop at private rented? Surely there must be a way we can make home owning rioters homeless too. Justice should be applied equally after all.