to think some people's attitudes are disgusting?

[TheRhubarb]

A thread about a thread and a sense of despair. There is a thread on mumsnet suggesting that babies be taken from parents at birth if the parents are, in her words "scum". Is this what we have become?

As much as I loathe and detest what the rioters have done let's take a step back here. There have been riots in Greece over cuts, protests in Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. All we've had so far are a few half-hearted protests whilst the government pisses off on yet another holiday and banks and energy companies publish record profits yet again. Were these riots not predicted at all?

You have generations of children born into families who have never worked and who live in a cycle of poverty. The charities and organisations that worked tirelessly to keep youths off the streets and give them hope have been disbanded due to cuts. So far 2,220 charities have been directly affected, the largest number in Birmingham and the second largest in London. Research also shows the the most deprived areas are those which are hardest hit.

When you live in a society that bombards you with images of footballers wives sunning themselves on holiday and you have a government that decided to all take their holidays at the same time whilst many families are forced to cancel their holidays then you can have some understanding of the hotbed of anger and resentment. Job losses are huge, benefits cut, the maintenance allowance to enable youths to go to college is scrapped, petrol prices are huge, energy prices up again and everyone is blaming each other.

I'm sorry but when a society breaks down you have to look deeper than just parental influence, you have to look at what help there is available. Because as a society we are all responsible for what happens. We all have a part to play and just pointing the finger of blame at so called 'scum' is offensive and narrow minded. If there are scum out there then we, as a society created them. This country is in danger of becoming as corrupt as Italy. The energy companies get away with murder, no-one now bats an eyelid at petrol price hikes, the banks are still making huge profits and the government are targeting the poorest to make them pay for the mistakes of the rich. Where there is corruption on this scale there will be riots.

There is no excuse for tearing apart people's businesses or burning down homes, but just pointing the finger of blame at each other will not help.

Rant over.

I am not that sad! As I said my own views on the why's and wherefores of this are not a million miles from yours tbh but the way you cannot tolerate anyone elses is ironic really. It is people unable to try and understand others that has got us here! Your views are your views but they are no more valid than bimbos. You just don.t like them not once hav,e you asked anyone with a different pov why they think as they do yet your whole ethos on these rioters is based on considering them and their views even if we don,t agree with them. Am more than willing to be corrected if that is not so. I do remember you telling me previously that I was mistaken about parenting my own child so although you are wrong when you say I dislike you it did irritate me and I found it high handed and patronising. Now I am off to cook! My ds is in Barcelona and we are living itup with m and s food while he is away

Your worrying about children getting called "animals" when they have murdered people.

Really, really there is something quite wrong with your priorities.

Exactly lying, I find it so hard to feel sympathy for those perpatrators, especially when I see shops ablaze, injured people being robbed, people affected by the riots who are afraid to go out and communities being destroyed. What a brilliant are the people who have come out to help clean the community and help restore a sense of pride.

coco - and their is seriously something wrong with your post!

I hate children being called all of those names too.

And incase you missed the link here is a distraught father talking about his son, MURDERED in the rioting.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXv5CRocvg

You watch it, come back and tell me the murders don't deserve to get called "animals".

"their"! hurray!

LyingWitch, again I agree. Anyone can start a thread, it takes courage to act. The police have been criticised for failing to protect people when their budget was slashed and numbers cut.

I can understand people ranting out of pure anger and I can understand the fear being felt. But online those rants are turning into threats on facebook and other sites and sooner or later someone innocent will be targeted.

I won't answer criticism of where I now live. That's pathetic.

MrsF, yes those comments about the public sector needing discipline and fear was abhorrent and offensive. They already have fear, of losing their jobs and the pensions they worked hard for. And you are quite right about the government treating us without respect. Which is why they were all sunning themselves on holiday when the stocks and shares were plummeting and a peaceful protest turned into a riot.

It doesn't matter what social background you are from if your hurting people and causing damage to others property then you are a sorry excuse for a human being IMO , also you don't have to be on a low income to be a bad parent, you find them in all walks of life. If the students parents have bought them up to believe it's ok to damage other people's property then yes they are partially to blame, if they are between 11-16 the parents are alot to blame as they should have kept them in doors, you won't find my teenager out on the streets in the middle of a riot

Geez.

Your getting joy out of their/there

AFTER WATCHING A VIDEO ABOUT A MAN WITH A MURDERED SON

You need help

sorry coco. I didn't watch it. I really don't have to.

and stop shouting.

and yes. I really need help with some guttering. Offers?

I don't understand why we can't have sympathy with those who have suffered as a result of the riots and the poverty-struck youth of the UK and the children in Somalia.

Do we not have enough compassion to go round?

You really are deeply disturbed.

Seriously we are taking about an innocent life lost and you come out with sick, weird comments.

Yes, Cinnabar. Exactly.

Noddy, there is no point in keep referring to a previous thread. Your comments are out of context and were never directed towards you alone. I apologised on that thread several times I believe for any offence caused.

Can I ask again where I am not listening to the opinions of others? Or was that just Bimbo? Someone who said that she thought the people she was paid to help were scum? And that babies should be taken from their "scum parents" at birth? I admit, I found those views abhorrent however I still answered them. If anyone in a caring role finds themselves thinking that the people they care for are scum, then imo they should find another job. However Bimbo has proved capable of answering for herself.

Can I also ask where any of us has said that the rioters should not be punished? Have we said that violence should be condoned?

I could say that those who insist on repeating this notion that I or anyone else thinks the rioters are anything other than criminals are guilty of refusing to listen or take other opinions on board.

We are asking that people look at the reasons WHY the riots started. WHY society has broken down and WHAT we can do to fix it. That seems to be a positive start does it not? What is positive about labelling children as feral rats?

Poverty struck youth? They don't realy know what poverty is though do they

Oh Lord Coco, come on now. Cinnabar has done something active and positive to help even though she doesn't live in the heart of London. Isn't that worth something? What should we all do? Go out with baseball bats and murder a few rioters?

I was talking to creepy Pan not Cinnabar.

(TBF, I don't think that Coco's comment was directed at me - it was just immediately beneath mine.)

Well said Moomins, most of the people out and about causing this trouble dont seem to be wearing £3.99 trainers from Tesco's is that just a coincidence I wonder? They couldnt possibly be greedy grasping waste of space chavs though, they must simply be damaged, misunderstood and ignored youngsters.

Moomin. Actually I am worse off than my parents were.

People this winter will not be able to afford to heat their homes.
Food shopping has risen sharply so that meat is almost a luxury again.
Cars are being sold or abandoned as no-one can afford the insurance or the petrol.
There are no jobs for the jobless.

No, it's nothing compared to Somalia, but don't pretend that poverty doesn't exist in Britain.

no coco - you are getting yourself all wound up by posting about the loss of an innocent life. Don't drag me into it, ta.

I can only commend Rhubarb on her stamina. Four days in of indulgent bile being spewed and I have given up on any hope of useful discussion without some red-neck wanting to demonstrate their bleeding heart.

God you really are so patronising without any real argument. My comments are not out of context I am referring to your insistence on pushing your POV even when someone is telling you that is not their experience. you are doing it again here. I think as you have all the answers you should hot foot it to No 10 and give them the benefit of your wisdom

And what of the disenfranchised poverty-struck youth who weren't out rioting? Do we just forget about them?

I confess - I forgot about them until the riots. Their issues didn't cross over into my day-to-day life. Well, they have now. And I'm going to damn well do something to help, even if it only seems like a drop in the ocean.

Rhubarb... I agree with you on that; rants should be just that, rants. Threats are something else entirely and have the potential to really escalate the situation and make it so much worse.

I think things need to calm down first, get the violence stopped, make the repairs to ruined homes and property and then look at how to prevent a recurrence.

Realy? You should think about all those people 60 years ago who didn't have heat at all, my grandad had two jobs but had to walk to work as he couldn't afford bus fare, my mum only had two dresses as a baby because that's all they could afford to buy her. Grandad says he's much better off now as a pensioner than he was back then. as for not being able to afford your heating bill that is no excuse for damaging other people's property.