Be careful what you wish for you totalitarian tw~*ts

[Tortington]

becuase that freedom that you want taken away...might very well be

g'night

FFS I would have more sympathy with the disenfranchised youth is we didn't have a state school system - most people in this country are given a decent enough education - it is those who don;t take the opportunity to learn something to get them through life and earn a wage that are creating the trouble.

Appalling social conditions are not that appalling - remember the labour government slung money at any family earning less the 49k!

And the reason they are doing it is because they do not have any self worth - women are not having kids because they want them, they do not have a tight family unit where they experience and are taught about love and self worth - it is why young men can stab others without a second thought - you think the person who you kill has no self worth - they don't realise that everyone is not like them and there are families and friends who will mourn the loss of a husband or brother.

MCF I couldn't agree more. We live in one of the richest countries in the world with one of the best social support system. Very very few people are in true poverty when compared to the rest of the world. You are absolutely right about what is lacking - tightly knit family units where right and wrong is taught in loving environment.

Someone jokingly asked me if my kids where in the riots, (they were at sports club getting tired) and I responded if they did I would whip them (metaphorically speaking of course!) And thats the point isn't it - respect for others start with respect for yourself which is taught by your parent/s.

Two points re the poverty thing,
1)We have very little poverty compared to the poverty many families were living in during the 60s and 70s.
2)The working poor are often some of the poorest and yet they are often the ones who are bringing their kids up with morals and respect. (as opposed to this 'underclass' where no role models exist and no boundaries)

Yes Carpetlover, there is clearly a difference and you put it very succinctly!

so we are talking about changing prevailing culture. I have said time and again that we need parenting classes in this country. If you want to recieve child benefit attendence is mandatory.

ofcourse this means that the Tories would have to give money to a resource, which of course will never happen unless it involved their friends and bonuses

Interesting thread - just marking my place to read it properly tomorrow.

Cogito....but there's no job that pays as good as drugs pay The biggest failure has been to let this sub-culture get a foothold.

What would happen if some drugs were legalised? Ecstasy and cannabis, both of which have been used medicinally, and which could be produced at a safe strength? Not so that we could all take drugs, although both E and cannabis tend to make the user feel mellow, rather than agressive, but so that gangs could not make money from them. And the prison and court system would be freed from (don't know how) many people in their for drug crimes.

(To whoever suggested that 'runners' for drug gangs don't make much money, I think that may have been in Freakonomics. I don't have a copy but I think that there was a chapter about how most drug dealers live with their mothers).

in there

And save police time. Isn't the 'stop and search' controversy all about drugs, or is it knives, too?

A friend of a friend of mine, but someone who I met many many times, had a son stabbed to death in South London a few years ago. I don't know why. I don't understand gang culture at all.

I feel as though I am dreaming. Other countries are issuing warnings about coming here.

Does anyone think that some of the rioters have been (entirely mistakenly) influenced by TV coverage of the Arab Spring?

Goodkate: I agree with you.

But what do we (and I use we in the loosest sense of the word as I'm an ocean away) do about it, though? It's all well and good to understand why this has happened, but they still have to be stopped and punished or what kind of message is that sending? Have they started raping yet? They will.

I think the army SHOULD be deployed, just to have more people to back up the police. I don't think they should shoot anyone! I think it's ridiculous to act as though using force to stop this kind of criminal behavior is in any way totalitarian. It's not as though this is a peaceful protest, FGS.

And of course Mark Duggan's death must be looked into and any wrong-doers punished.

What do we do to stop this kind of mentality? More mentors? What? I was brought up "working poor" when I was young, and as a previous poster said, it was drilled into us that we would work and earn things and God help us if we stole or disrespected our elders. (And I'm 29, so it wasn't that long ago) My brother has grown into a not-very-nice person, sad to say, but he is a hard worker and would never lie or steal.

What's to be DONE about it all?

And what happened to shame?

You used to be ashamed to go to jail, ashamed to be a thief, ashamed to create children and not do right by them! What the hell happened and how is it to be fixed?

I don't think shame has been heaped on people at all. On the contrary: a generation has been told there is a reason and excuse for any behaviour. A label for everything. Wrong has become relative.

"Hey I'm depraved because I'm deprived." It's a pretty old one from West Side Story but quite pithy really.