Be careful what you wish for you totalitarian tw~*ts

[Tortington]

becuase that freedom that you want taken away...might very well be

g'night

Yup, we're worried now it's not just each other they're hurting.

That was to Cogito btw

Cogito....but there's no job that pays as good as drugs pay The biggest failure has been to let this sub-culture get a foothold.

Agree :(

There are more jobs in London than anywhere else in the country. Better transport and free education so I fail to see how they have become illiterate. School was compulsory last time my kids wanted a day off.

Cogito-very good point about the sub culture.

They are showing their power and it is intoxicating. They are showing what disenfranchised youth can do and in our society it's no surprise that they take material goods along the way.

And I do think the cuts in youth services, economic deprivation and perceived inequality are the cause of this. Sure start cut, youth services cut a difficult future for these young people when others seem to be having the time of their lives.

What shook me was when these people were looting etc there was no protection. You always think someone will come to help you when you are in trouble but families were left on their own last night.

SAF, yes it's excellent. It's terrifying though, I didn't finish it when I started reading it last year, really depressing. Am I selling it to you?

Norman, this poor disenfranchised youth all appear to be comunicating on their blackberrys and I phones.

THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK THEY IS GANGSTAS

They do it ( riot, loot etc) because they can.
Who is stopping them?

I remember a documentary quite a few years ago about Lower Broughton, Salford. Kids on bicycles were robbing cars waiting to leave petrol stations.... cycling up, popping the boot, nicking the contents and pedalling off before the driver could react. The same little gangs were robbing car radios and anything else not tied down. When the interviewer caught up with them, some were quite young children, all hanging around outside in the middle of the night. "Why do you do it?" was met with the answer that they could get £20 for a radio and, one it had been spent, they'd rob another one. To them it was a living. "What about getting a job?"... they laughed and said that jobs were for mugs and they wouldn't get as much money.

This must have been 10 years ago, easily. Now kids that age in the same area are running drugs and making considerably more than £20 a time. That's the reality of parts of London and other big cities today. They are not interested in the wider community or the wider economy because their gang is their employer, community and social security all rolled into one.

Noone WANTS to see the army in the streets. Of course not. But then I don't want to see these stupid fuckwit looters even less.

Given the choice between seeing a squaddie on the street corner or a thug robbing a store, I know which I'd choose.

The police clearly are outnumbered and already copycat "riots" are happening. The government need to crack down hard right now. Stupid platitudes about keeping your kids off the street and policing by consent just sounds weak. And nobody respects a weak government.

The vast majority of us want the thugs to be dealt with. Preferably with the police in the numbers they need to arrest them. But if that's not an option then I'd accept the army backing them up. And if that means a few thugs/thieves getting their heads kicked in then sorry, that's something they should have thought of before robbing and setting things on fire.

Cogito, if they'd been born into different families they'd have made top bankers.

All this started years ago when we lost the ability to discipline ourselves and those we are responsible for

Darcus Howe on Newsnight last night spoke of how his 15 year old nephew has lost count of the times he's been stopped and searched. I can imagine getting to the point of thinking 'fuck it, they're going to keep stopping me whether I break the law or not, why should I go without all the good stuff.'
ACTUALLY
He said his grandson had been stopped once and felt he had had his initiation rites - How the fuck does being stopped once give you the right to riot?? What the FUCK do they want - more Black youth commit more street crime than any other section of society - conversly more Black youths are killed in street/gang violance than other group - so once again the police are buggered if they do and buggered if they dont!

The Black older generation need to address the behaviour of thier youths ie drugs, gangs and crime - along with the way they treat women. They need to give the positive roll models rather than defending shit behaviour with out dated 70's Black nation shite.

If somone cannot make a living/ get themselves an education in London then the rest of the country has no hope. They can all afford balckberrys so they arnt bloody starving are they

sir sugar Norman, this poor disenfranchised youth all appear to be comunicating on their blackberrys and I phones

They have seen an opportunity and have taken it. I don't believe there is a 'protest' going onas such- they are having a laugh and stealing what they can.

They do it because they are having the most fun and excitement of their lives. It's like doing some extreme sport, but with added adrenalin from the threat of being caught (plus the chance to come home with some big prizes).

Totally pointless apart from the buzz.

And I know its not just Black youth rioting but Darcus Howe and a few other have come across as if this is a race issue

Cogito I agree with your view about the gang culture and looking back over the last few years, the stabbings, the shootings it seems there is a community within a community.

From their point of view it's not their community burning, it's someone elses.

Drugs are at the heart of it I believe and what would help is an end to prohibition and drug addiction becoming a public health issue not a criminal matter.

Piprabbit - ditto

@Timewasting... you're probably right. I'm sure there's a lot of talent going to waste in these people, same as I'm sure some kids given the best start in life end up throwing it down the pan in spite of everything. However, no amount of hand-wringing about being 'disenfranchised' is going to change the trajectory. Dealing with the gang culture might.

And it's a damn sight easier to get a blackberry than a stable home environment, college education and a job.

@NormanTebbit... exactly. If your gang is your world then everyone else is the enemy. Only if someone attacks your gang do you defend and protect. That's what's been going on in London and elsewhere. Now you can say that there would be no gang culture if there was more affluence and less deprivation and I'm sure that's true. But this isn't a phenomenon of the last year. It's been slowly gathering speed for decades - good times and bad - so it's far too simplistic to say this is a race issue or an economic issue.