Be careful what you wish for you totalitarian tw~*ts

[Tortington]

becuase that freedom that you want taken away...might very well be

g'night

Have we mentioned giving internment a try yet?

40th anniversary of that little experiment in NI today

I agree with Nancy too.

Ever seen City of God? Towards the end of that film, a new generation of gangster kids is coming up even more frightening than the one the film has been portraying. They start younger, are chaotic, unpredictable and disorganised, lack empathy and any insight into consequences. They have even less prospect than their forebears of growing out of their worst excesses when they hit their twenties.

I feel that's where we are. Frankly, sometimes the 8-15 year olds are more scary than the grown men. The very fact such young children have been free to be out gleefully participating in all this tells you a lot about their home circumstances. How many posters on this thread don't know where their 10 year olds spent last night?

I did see City of God - that was a fantastic film.

there are some gangs of kids i see in south london that are probably 12-14 years old and they frighten me - i cross the street from them. Frightened of 12-year-olds? Jesus

swallowedAfly - I wouldn't bank on it. chances are the parents are out all night too and the kids just come and go as they please

they're doing that themselves through their actions aren't they?

i think we're on dangerous ground if we start using this as an opportunity to dehumanise and demonise whole groups of people

This!

I also happen to think that there is an issue with "other"izing "them" and ascribing certain characteristic to "them" in a sweeping manner.

For example, it's not entirely true that "they" just take whatever they fancy, is it? This might be happening at the moment - but that's not usually the case. And we may probably assume that a majority of those involved are not going to behave in this manner unless there's an entre mob involved.

FWIW, I live in student accommodation. This not being term time, some of the space in our block of flats is currently occupied by foreign language students. These are young people here to learn English.

Last night I overheard several of them discussing that they wanted to go and "take part". I was also asked by two stupid young Italians how one would go about joining in the riots (told them to fuck off of course).

if your freedoms are threatened who will come to your aid? These feckless twats?

Do you think they give a shit about ANYTHING? or ANYONE?

don't confuse political freedoms with greed. They have access to food, shelter, healthcare, education and a democratic process. They choose not to work hard or engage. They choose to destroy the efforts of those who have worked hard.

This isn't a protest. It's a shopping spree.

But when did we reach a situation where being desperately poor became an acceptable excuse for such feral behaviour? That's a genuine question which constantly puzzles me.

We grew up proper poor. Not enough to eat, living in a slum poor. It was rough, we were rough but you were expected to have respect and not act like an animal.

When and why did this all change? What is different.

carpet it hasn't changed. It never changed. It's still no excuse.

This isn't about poverty. We've bred this sub culture. By handing everything to them on a plate, living in fear of them, making excuses for them, not holding them accountable for their own situations.

Just because you are poor does not mean you have to trash your family, destroy your children, take drugs or join gangs.

OP makes little sense to me. Totaltiatian Tw*ts? Who are these Tw*ts? We do not live in a totalitarian society. If we did, there would have been bloodshed on the streets as the state fought back with overwhelming force. Riots sometimes happen in this country and this is sad but it's not because we don't have machine gun carrying troops on evey corner.

That's what people were calling for LostVagueness.

I think if you live in the terror that we currently do you would be asking for the army to be on the streets. As the night draws in, londoners in the hot spot areas are terrified.

Very true Colleger Its very easy for those of us sitting in the suburbs and the countryside to pontificate about what could or should be done but right now there are innocent people at the mercy of the rioters.

We don't need to "understand" the behaviour of the rioters nor the "appalling" social conditions that some people believe has lead us to this situation. Right now we need decent, law abiding citizens to be protected and if the police cannot guarantee their safety then maybe its time to call in the army to support them.

But swallowedAfly, when I was growing up there was little hope either. Anyone who knows Glasgow can tell you about Easterhouse. There was lots of petty crime and lots of neglect but it all seems so much more extreme nowadays.

It sounds cliched but an old lady who'd lived there all her life didn't have to fear the youth on her corner. Nowadays they'd be nicking her purse and thumping her around the head.
I never felt unsafe growing up but I sure as hell wouldn't feel safe walking through there now.

I don't think the gap has got wider for most. Yes, there was a little more mobility for clever kids but not for those who weren't. One thing that has changed is whereas kids who left school with no qualifications took jobs in factories etc back then, these days they often see that as too boring or menial or not paying enough. They want more material things and the global media explosion doesn't help. Instead of thinking I'll get a nice trainee job in the hairdressers sweeping hair for minimum wage, they all want to be Cheryl Cole.

I think it is very interesting that the people being arrested for rioting/burglary are not simply uneducated, unemployed teenagers:

The BBC are reporting from the courts that:

"32 people have appeared in court charged with offences such as burglary and criminal damage during the previous riots.

Among them were a graphic designer, college students, a youth worker, a university graduate and a man signed up to join the army. Some gave non-London addresses. Eighteen were remanded in custody."

Piprabbit, I think that makes sense. Unfortunately, lots of people will just use any excuse for a fight. They are not interested in what happened to one young man in a car. They are either anarchists or yobs or both.

It used to be the same with football hooligans - a surprising cross-section of society seemed ready to wade in and perpetuate the fighting.

SAF, I do agree with you, I do.
I am also sat here in a semi-rural Lancs hamlet miles away from anything. So all well and good for me to pontificate.

I do know that I wouldn't be bothering about the why and wherefores if I'd been in Ealing last night with my kids in bed like 2 of best mates were. I cannot understand why local independent shopowners were looted and buildings set on fire. I could understand more if it was large chains being looted I suppose, but your own community? And why the mindless arson?

I am so torn on this, I sort of need there to be a reason for this mindless thuggery iyswim, otherwise we are well and truly in the shit. But I am so sickened, like everyone is.