Forsake The Forskin Vs Tolerate the Turtle-neck

[UselessForeskinHiddenSurgeon]

When our DC arrives (approx 4months) should we be blessed with a boy (we don't know/want to know) , my partner (Jewish) would like to perform Brit milah on DS. This ceremony must occur 8 days after birth. My folks (Muslim) would also appreciate possible future grandson being foreskin free for similar but slightly different religious purposes. I am not particularly religious and nor is my partner (hence marrying out)

I was circumcised at the age of twelve and have clear (though not painful) memories of the event (carried out by Muslim surgeon at home along with my two younger brothers) Do remember being a little scared and i suppose it might have been a bit of an ordeal... Do have at least one amusing anecdote from it so i can't be that scarred surely?

Despite my own experience I don't like the idea at all. my first instinct is to put it off until later in the hope that everyone will just forget... i mean how often do you think about someone else's foreskin? There are some health benifits, among them; significantly reduced risk of HIV, HPV and also reduced incidence of genital warts among circumcised men. These are not enough to swing my opinion. Now my folks may be cool with leaving it until later since they themselves left it until i was a little older, but she is adamant we have it performed after 8 days (as per Brit Milah tradition)

AIBU to want to make a fuss about this? perhaps i should just cross my fingers and hope for a girl. We shall call her Queenie and she defo won't need to go for a chop thanks. I'd like a girl anyhow and it would make it easier for sure... since this is the case we're bound to wind up with a boy. Comments, Opinions, and possible strategies please!

Cheers people.

Rev - the way I see it healthy babies are born pretty much perfect - including their penis.

Have you ever thought through WHY you have decided to chop a piece of it off?

Don't do it.

Why would you mutilate your perfect child?

rev I have no wish to be the one who starts lowering this thread and do not pretend to understand the religious connotations of circumcisions as i know nothing about it.
My opinion is based purely on.

Friends,brother,and bil whom all say that they wish they hadnt been circumcised-all for medical reasons btw.

Not allowing the child to have a choice about his own body.

Putting a baby thru unecessary and painfull surgery. As i said earlier my own baby is due to have surgery,maybe the first of many and i cannot imagine putting her through this if it wasnt absolutley necessary.

I also dont think its reasonable to compare a heel prick or being weighed to having a part of the penis removed as the a fore mentioned are necessary.

Out of interest,can anyone shed some light upon the religious reasons that a child should be circumcised?

1. it is healthier and more hygenic, this is well researched, I don't have to go into the why's and wherefores of that, its well known.

2. cultural reasons - very important but won't elaborate. OP will understand this even if he's non-practising.

3. he's still perfect, just doesn't have a foreskin

Why are babies born with a foreskin. Does it not serve purpose?

Who has made this rule that foreskins should be removed?

it does really matter if the baby has anaesthetic or has a top doctor do it the genitalia is being cut and changed forever. we are lucky that it can be done that way in england/america but a lot of countries do it in a very traditional way especially when the boys are older it is quite painful and unnecessary.
i am sorry if my terminology offends you or you see me as being reactionary to a fairly standard practise but i do see it as genital mutilation, your examples of vaccinations etc dont really hold water because these things are done to stop our children getting sick/dying or having other complications. it is highly unlikely you will get sick from having a foreskin.
i understand it is a religious tradition that is part of the subconsciousness and therefore important to the culture, but i dont really see why it would be less important for a 16 year old to make an informed choice if he wanted his penis to be cut for his god or not you are taking that option away from them.

You don't own your children.. You are looking after them until they are old enough to look after themselves. Parents ought to have no right to alter their children's bodies permenently.

Female genital mutilation is don't by people for 'cultural' reasons too, isn't it?

Its minor surgery, it took like 10mins, no GA, no stitches, healed within days. My baby cried far more having his 1st immunisations. I'm not trying to convert anyone, I don't care what other people do to their own babies. I was giving the OP my experience of circumcising a newborn, everyone will have their own opinion on the subject which is fine and fair.

If it were my child and my desicion I wouldn't do it.
For medical reasons yes of course. But for religious reasons when neither you or your partner are particularly religious is just wrong. Leave well alone.

Rev - but I still don't understand why YOU chose to have it done. I genuinely want to know YOUR reasons.

What do mean by hygiene reasons - how is a foreskin unhygenic?

Its ok, I can't be offended on this, I've given my view to the OP, I shall depart for others to discuss.

Animation (and also Useless who referred to vestigial organs earlier).

The purpose of the foreskin is to protect the delicate glans of the penis. A baby's foreskin cannot retract without force and tissue damage (which is done during circumcision), essentially the glans of a baby is an internal organ. Most boys are able to retract their foreskin by the time they are 2/3 (by most I mean more than half, but not much more), a not insignificant minority can't retract theirs until they are almost at puberty.

The foreskin protects the urethra from infection when the baby is in nappies (keeps the faeces away). Adults who are circumcised usually have less sensitivity in their glans as it us not protected when the penis is flaccid. The foreskin doesn't make the penis less hygenic, failing to wash makes you less hygenic, foreskin or no: I have sent more than one cut lover to the bathroom to wash before I was happy to enter into sexual activities without needing to hold my nose.

So the foreskin is not "useless" or a vestigial organ, it is simply something one can manage without.

Rev - I'm sorry but I think that's a cop out to leave the discussion without explaining YOUR reasoning for having the foreskin chopped of.

How is it healthier and more hygenic?

Who says it is?

If you have any experience or knowledge on the culture of Benin, fine, we'll chat but you don't and I don't have time (two small kids). I am genuinely sorry I can't explain because its a fantastic culture. Maybe the OP will come back and explain why cultural/religious reasons are important. My DP has a scar across his face, endured cosmetically for his culture, he still loves his mum.

FutureNannyOgg

Thanks for that.

So you are saying that in fact it is HEALTHIER to have a foreskin, because it protects the glans penis AND the urethra from infection. Also the penis is rendered more sensitive in adulthood for sexual activity WITH a foreskin.

So yes, it seems to serve a very useful function.

Why would you want to be without it then?

I really am interested in the reasons tho.
As for hygiene,well many parts of our bodies are prone to getting more dirty.Belly buttons,bums and vaginas,its all about keeping clean at the end of the day. I have 3 boys and a husband and they dont seem to have aproblem with hygiene. I think its just hard to accept that anyone would willingly put their baby though it,no disrespect intended.

"If you have any experience or knowledge on the culture of Benin, fine, we'll chat..."

Rev - I don't have any knowledge of your culture - but would like to get to the truth of the matter behind such doctrine that advocates the removal of foreskins.

So far my logic and reasoning doesn't see any valid reason to perform such an invasive surgical procedure on any baby of mine.

I would like to understand why others do it though.

You cant explain as its a "fantastic culture" not that fantastic if you cant even talk about it though. Do you actually know why its necessary in you culture?
Arent their many other things in religion that should be followed? Are you staunchly sticking to those too eg, no pre marital sex or sex for purpose of procreation only? Id be interested if those who had their babies circumcised also followed every other aspect of their religion to the letter.

must be swift as fairly sure writing on forums is not allowed at work.

picking up a few points people haave been making (sorry unable to break it down to individuals just now...

the reason it is such a big deal despite our both being non practicing is that our families and extended families are not of the exact same mind-set as us. it's important to both of us that our child is not alienated from his/her own family (outside us as parents) the sad truth is they will probably struggle from the get go because they will be from a mixed marriage.

my personal experience as an adult of having been cut at 12 is that yeah there is a loss of sensation. a loss that has lead to (imo) increased stamina compared to uncut men my age. I can only speak for myself but i honestly don't miss it. being cut became a part of my identity. stuff like that is going to mean a lot to a mix indo/european jewish/muslim/british kid that is looking to find out where he fits in. now i'm considering going back on something that would assist him greatly in fitting in, both with his mothers side of the family and my own. i had enough trouble being done at 12. recall grand parents talking in shocked tones about my not being 'done' yet. it doesnt help ground one as a young man.

unfortunately i won't be showing this thread to my partner because some of the language (i'm not saying that people can't express their opinions) is a little severe. i don't want genital mutilation as a concept or as a word being used in my attempts at winning her over. personally I do not feel 'mutilated' putting my penis in a cup of warm salt water and antiseptic regularly to dissolve the stitches wasn't the worst thing i've had to do but it was hardly a moment to rejoice over either...

i think that discussing it in those terms serves only to polarize opinion further and alienate the very people that those using such language to influence others are seeking to reach. If it turns out we're having a boy, he will have enough problems to cope with even without issues regarding circumcision with his grand parents on both sides and maybe others too. so you see it's enormously complicated and i can't help having sympathy for the position my wife is taking.

i really have to go. sorry for the likely errors, excuse the grammar and please note that i am not trying to upset anyone or cause a row of anykind. i'm just concerned for the welfare of our child. she and i both. in that sense at least our little one has nowt to worry about. okay. you guys play nice.

see y'all at 16:00

I was made to feel like a freak for not getting son circumcised in America. Apparently it is the norm and they just throw it in with the whole birth/hossie stay business. I had to sign saying I didn't want it done!! A nurse asked me why on earth I didn't want it done, was it for religious reasons? I had to explain that in the UK it is normally religious reasons that would lead to getting it done.

I hope whatever choice you both make it is one you are happy with, and that people try to respect your decision.

My father was circumcised as a baby as it was an automatic procedure done by the hospital on all male newborns and he resents it like hell. So much so that he was almost obsessive in making sure that my dh and I ensured that the hospital where our ds was born would not do it automatically.

My opinion is that this is your potential son's body that he should have the choice to decide what to do whether it be for personal or medical reasons.

okay still here. what i am afraid of is... which will hurt more. a quick operaation as a child or repeatedly being made to feel like an outsider by members of your extended family on both sides. don't forget that we shall have little control over what is said to them in private or what they may overhear others talking about. "your not jewish your dads a muzza"," your not muslim coz ya mams a jew" "and you aint cut so that proves it" these are the words that frighten me so much. these things are inextricably linked to identity and will undoubtedly affect things like self esteem, and simply knowing who and what he is. god i really hope we have a girl. all girls!

shit outta here!

My DS was circumsised and DS2 will be (when I pop) I had some reservations but DH is a practicing (liberal) jew and all are children are being raised Jewish, so because of that I accepted. to DH it's about his son's being the same as him. I'm not religious at all (come from a Buddhist background) It was important to DH and it was related to DC religion.
Pesonally at 8 days they don't know what is going on and 12 you would. But neither of you is religious and it wouldn't effect that part. But it's about more than reliion it's about being connected to others though something shared. I'd disagree at later.

"the reason it is such a big deal despite our both being non practicing is that our families and extended families are not of the exact same mind-set as us. it's important to both of us that our child is not alienated from his/her own family (outside us as parents) the sad truth is they will probably struggle from the get go because they will be from a mixed marriage."

Useless - This seems nearer the truth of the matter - and it's a bit worrying to think you have to hurt your child, and put them through this procedure in order to keep your parents happy - so that they don't ostracise you and your child.