In this day and age to think

[BimboNo5]

An establishment like 'Hooters' is pathetic and wrong?

so HFTB - why do we think it's called Hooters?

Well yes - because in banning Hooters, you have removed the womans choice.

I do not think removing choice from people is the best way to ensure a fair and equal society. Why should what you believe affect the choices other women make and more than what men believe affect womens choices?

I would also point out I have not at anytime refered to you as bitter, humourless or oppressed or anything similar.

Hooters may not be to everyones taste (it isn't to mine) but I do wonder where this would stop. In an ideal world you would ban Hooters. Then what? Would you ban make up as it sexualises women? Would you impose a suitable dress to avoid sexualising women? I think that is a dangerous road and geniuely am interested in where you would draw the line.

How many other bars and restaurants that claim to be family orientated are named after TITS and have TITS in the company logo? How many other bars and restaurants stipulate that only the females that work there need to wear skimpy attire and look good and have wet t shirt contests beauty paegents and the like? In this day and age refers to the fact we seemed to have moved on from such pathetic titilation and sexualising of women in everyday situations, what a wonderful empowering forward step that women get to work in such a sophisticated and tasteful environment, I am proud of society

ah I see. It's nothing to do with showing big tits for sexualising purposes is it?

Thanks Bimbo and Pan, saved me some typing . Hope, that's my answer.

Oh and Lady Clarence. I don't consider you to be a feminist. I do not see how you an be when you judge and invalidate the choices other women make and seek to remove their freedoms and choices if you disagree with them.

Having a man tell me what I should or should not be allowed to do with my body is no different to having you tell me what to do with it.

A feminist would support a womans right to chose what she does with her life or her body. You don''t support a womans right to do that if you disagree with her, so you are not a feminist.

Get my name right, catgirl, and I might feel like entering into conversation.

For now: I'm not attacking individual women for choosing to work at Hooters. There are bigger forces at work, of misogyny, sexism and of course consumerism/capitalism, which is inextricably linked with feminist issues, and it's those that I object to. Please don't tell me what I am or am not. You could have put your questions about supporting women's choices without getting personal.

Nobody is telling YOU what to do with your body. People are objecting to businesses that market themselves as something when they are simply sexist and exploit women as part of their employment laws.

Tell me how many women would be so happy to be told 'sorry I know you are qualified and capable, but only men can apply to this firm of solicitors. Hot men as well, with a nice trouser bulge'

Again, Bimbo, words out of my mouth! except you're much quicker and more articulate than me

I don't think it pretends to be anything other than what it is. Hence the name "Hooters" and the pictures of girls in skimpy outfits on the website.

It isn't to my taste and I certainly wouldn't take children there but I don't think it tries to make any illusions about what it is. In fact, it is more honest than most places as a great deal of companies, particularly in entertainment and hospitality will only employ attractive staff front of house.

I dislike the notion that if a women uses her looks or sexuality in her career she is automatically being "objectified" and is a victim of misogyny and sexism. I think it is insulting to women to suggest they are not able to use this attributes for their own gain without becoming victims of society. It is insulting to women to say they are being exploited by working at Hooters as I am sure most of the women who work there are there by choice and are intellegent enough to know what they are doing. They are not being exploited. They are not forced to work there, they are not trafficked and held against their will.

I am genuniely interested to know where you would draw the line to "stop" the sexualisation of women as I asked in a previous post. Fine ban Hooters. But then what next? Do we start to ban certain ways of dressing etc? Where is that line?

Bimbo you are deliberately not making sense. Being male would not be a BFOQ for the solicitor role, therefore it would be discrimination. Hooters is covered by the BFOQ defense and therefore is not the same situation.

They are though, and even if they dont object it still harms though who dont as it gives the general impression women are there to be leered at. The more organisations that go along with this the worse it gets. Ive already answered the question about drawing the line so im not going to repeat myself yet again.

those who dont

I am sorry - I will re-read the thread as I do not know where you answered the question about drawing the line.

How do you know they are being exploited? Do you not think they could freely chose to work there and be happy with the choice?

I would like to live in a world where hooters could not exist. Therefore I will never know how wonderful the service is in there.

I have had a nice bacon sandwich and a cup of tea from "Big Baps" on the A59 though. The owner was fully dressed as I remember.

The whole ethos of the company exploits women. Employ them because they look good, make them wear a skimpy outfit to make them look even more pleasing to the eye. Get them doing some wet t shirt contests for a 'giggle' for the men because after all its hooters- they are only as good as a pair of tits hey?
I fail to believe the naievity of some folk, its far from empowering, men have women RIGHT where they want them in this kind of concept.

There are plenty of other places women can work without having to be a piece of meat there to be judged by men and fired when they get fat/old

There you go again with your harsh judging.

The beautiful scantily clad women who work there are not pieces of meat...they are human beings who decide to work in a venue where they can show off their figures and enjoy the attention it brings them from both male and female customers.

I find your 'pieces of meat' statement insulting, narrow minded and incredibly sexist to be honest. You've never even met these people so how can you judge them?

I don't think Bimbo was actually calling Hooters staff pieces of meat . I think she was saying that that's the general perception of them perpetuated by the company. There is a difference, as I tried to say earlier, between judging individuals and having trenchant things to say about a society in which these situations are allowed to flourish.

trice, Big baps might just win Best Shop Name Ever award!

Big Baps, sorry.

men have women RIGHT where they want them in this kind of concept

Oh really? And yet it's the men (and women) customers who are out of pocket and the Hooters waitresses who are earning lots of money in wages and tips.

Yet you say men have the women right where they want them?

Well I don't consider myself to in some sort of battle with men, or think they have any agenda regarding where they "want" women.

I think Hooters is pretty taky, but if people want to work there and people want to visit there, that's up to them. Luckily I don't think the fact that people like to look at attractive people is actually degrading, just a fact of life.

I don't think men are so simple that if they see attractive women in one context they then base their entire view of women on that. I can have a good old perv over a male models torso - doesn't mean I can then only think of men in a sexual or objetified context. Men too are capable of having pretty base thoughts about a woman in one circumstance but changing context and way of thinking in an other. They can also differentiate between one woman in particular and all women in society.

Am thinking of opening the "Cockfosters" chain where hot men wear tight trousers and cod pieces and are selected on luncbox size. No women will go, I am sure :o

And I assume Bimbo et al will protest as it's the principle , right?

Am also thinking after 10 pages these ladies protesteth too much......