... to think there's a sudden tendency in AIBU...

[woollyideas]

... for some people to accuse others of 'bullying' or 'attacking' when they have their views disagreed with?

I've noticed a few threads on here in the last couple of days where anyone putting across a contrary view to the OP gets accused of being mean/bullying/personally attacking. I don't like it. Aren't people allowed to disagree anymore?

More to the point, I've noticed that some of the people complaining about 'bullies' are ganging up with each other to 'tell someone off' which comes across as a bit... well... bullying.

shirley and addressbook.both wrong to use someone else as example of bullying on mn. cant you both discuss without need to name a specific other?

You're quite right SM. I'll get that withdrawn and repost without the response about that specific poster.

I was using "me" as an example.

The thing is that, again, it is a matter of perception. I remember that, and I remember it differently to you.

Again, it's not "bullying" to be a bitch to someone on a thread - unless you then follow that person to other threads, and all the other things I said upthread. The thing is that MN has a pretty strong intolerance for that kind of shit and jumps quite heavily on posters who act that way (hence the thread about a thread stuff) and I've done that myself.

There are posters here who make me want to scream in frustration but I just hide their threads and keep out of their way.

I have also asked for my post to be deleted. But it does kind of bring us back to the point that although it is anonymous and words on a screen it can be intrusive

intrusive because both made it so naming another to prove some petty point

I suppose one example is this collective 'banter' whereby some poster will pick up on a typing error or spelling mistake and then partake in a long piss take by using the word with other posters.

I can tell it is a subtle form of bullying because it belittles the posters words, which may have been serious and heartfelt. Of course banter is good and an ability to laugh at oneself but sometimes the dynamic just isn't right

But is it a petty point scottishmummy? I corresponded privately with said poster and I know she was very upset by what went on. I am trying to proove a point yes and I shouldn't have used her name - but it isn't petty.

scottishmummy Fri 05-Aug-11 12:26:26
mn is words on a screen.

classic

Aye, thats why were are anti internet bullying agencies and everything. i just can't get my head round, how people can't get their head round people having friends online

I didn't read all of the thread that has been referred to, but often an accusation of bullying on MN comes after an AIBU thread, where the poster is very resistant to the idea that she might after all be unreasonable, when it has been pointed out to her by 100 posters.

And I do think that the pisstaking and sillyness can be upsetting for a poster and that sometimes it is juvenile.

I don't think it is bullying though.

"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength."

From this website.

Aggressive behaviour? Perhaps.

Pattern repeated over time? No.

Imbalance? Not really. Imbalance in numbers perhaps, but not in power or strength.

And the person who feels she is targeted has the option of hiding the thread, switching off the computer, reporting the behaviour to MNHQ, or all of the above.

They are set up with regards to specific bullying on social sites like Facebook and MySpace. MSN, that sort of thing. For bullying that is aimed at a specific, named individual by others.

Not for a bunch of nameless people discussing/debating stuff on a forum. That is not bullying. That is dissecting a post, pointing out flaws in an argument or disagreeing.

FWIW, I like the internet because sheep can safely lurk if they wish. If I open my mouth (like now), I know I'm opening myself up to any weird interpretation of my words possible. This is what a literature degree has given me.... Mumsnet isn't the easiest place to be a bully, I would have thought; it is so easy to become AnotherName. It's journals and flists where you are invested in that identity that become a real problem.

BTW, uh, can I be a Silent Lurker Maverick Sheep? Can they get wolef's clothing?

I like your name YouWithTheFace

In some ways OP, this is self-fulfilling in that some people will ask for opinions or advice on here or other fora precisely because they are too timid or confused or afraid to confront the issue IRL and are therefore more likely to take any disagreement or negative / sarcastic comments far too seriously.

And I think the whole bullying thing is a bit strange. MN has been accused of tolerating bullies, when one of the accusers (who shall not be named) has in fact been a victim of ongoing cyberbullying/stalking which has nothing to do with MN.

As I understand it, online bullying would be if I were to carry on a campaign of harassment and intimidation, to blog, tweet about the discussion in a derogatory manner, or to PM posters to carry on the discussion off board. To follow the posters to other social networks, to cause trouble for them in RL, to post under their name specifically to cause trouble.

That is what I would term online bullying, and I have not seen evidence of it on MN.

custardo,mn assumes adults post we dont need panic button or need to raise alarm for exploitation - ceop and panic buttons are for vulnerable adolescents and children online

mn is a site for adults.although admittedly not all act like adults

but everytime there is a scam or a familiar name exposed as troll, i am reminded it is words on screen and i do wonder why some folk take it all so seriously as to have emotional attachments .the mouldies spat was risible,all boo hoo my bestie mn pal whom i have never met doesnt want me in a clique of online strangers...

it all begs get a perspective.really it does

but you know what its the same ole same ole. a familiar poster falls from grace. accusations of troll.mnhq post to soothe people and they always remind people to have some internet savvy on public forum

I have seen only one incident of (what I would consider) bullying in 4 years.

Two long time 'much loved' (huh) posters (moldies) hounded a Mner who was a vicar, said that she was a liar, she wasnt ordained, she was a bullshitting troll. Several hundred posts of sheer ganging up nastiness. The poor mner in question had to speak to MNHQ and actually send them her ordination papers (or whatever) to get MNHQ to back off and leave her alone. They should have been banned for that.

However, what is usually termed as bullying on MN is just more than one person disagreeing vociferously with a mumsnetter. Not bullying as i would view it.

I don't see what is so awful and ghaslty about AIBU as opposed to other topics. You can get equally contentious threads in chat, breastfeeding, politics.

scottishmummy I think some people have emotional attachments because they are vulnerable. I for one would not feel comfortable in participating in piss taking as I would wonder who is sitting behind the screen. It is still real people after all.

I also just don't get this idea that people shouldn't be sensitive. Sensitivity can be a fantastic attribute, but yes it can make you vulnerable.

And what MmeLindor defines as bullying - the Pm-ing, tweeting, bitching on other boards has been happening to Mnetters as a result of the blog thread. Mostly carried out by someone loudly proclaiming themselves to be a victim of MN bullying.

The accusations of bullying that appear to refer to the security light thread seem to be confusing bullying with disagreeing. FWIW I think the OP of the other thread has been surprisingly dignified throughout that thread, I don't think there was bullying but people have reacted much worse to less. I don't think I posted on it but reading it, it came across as a faily equal spat tbh. The OP held her own .

And, my final clinky twopennorth, I disagree with the accusation that turning these threads into the silly-fest of wolef jackets or discussions about Chicken Shakespeare is mocking or bullying. I know that I join in in the spirit of joking, having fun, lightening the mood. More than once, two posters who vehemently disagree with one another have ended up joining in the silliness. That's why I love MN.

GetOrf the thread that triggered this one, a similar thing happened. It started off as a simple disagreement but then a few posters did get nasty and started piss taking, undermining and questioning the validity of he OP.

I didn't like it, so I made my point.

online discussion anonymous and cant be corroborated.so people do need some internet savvy,and degree of self protection.

and addressbook,thats the rub what to one poster is bullying is not necessarily so to another

and i do think people on mn say bullying and a bit too readily and easily.

The security light thread was blatantly NOT bullying. It was a few mumsnetters calling someone for being what they considered to be a tosser/drama queen. If you post a load of old rot you should expect to have what you post to be questioned.

troll hunters and searching previous posts are nasty behaviours
that whole thing of trying to catch folk out and are you newbie

address - x posts, were you on about the security light thread

I don't think that was bullying. The vicar thread was a different story - afaik the vicar MNer wasn't even the OP of that thread, just came on and gave a viewpoint and was pulled to bits.

I actually think this has been one of the better threads discussing bullying. There has been some interesting points made. I am not a complete sour pus, I can have a laugh but bullying is something that has particular relevance to me so if I feel it is going on, I like to try and question it

Yes the trollhunting is tiresome SM but there have been so many twats making stuff up on threads that I am not surprised that people are sceptical.