to think that wheelchairs should be priority on buses?

[mamadivazback]

My DS and I were on the bus today coming home from the town when I noticed a woman I vaguely know to speak to in the queue behind about 8 people with her 6YO DD who is in a narrow childs wheelchair and her DP with 2 year old son in small stroller so we waved, as you do.

Now the bus was about half full and 2 girls got on with their children in pushchairs, one with a very large Emmaljunga type and the other with a stroller and both children were happily sitting up by themselves and looked to be about 18 months old but neither thought to fold their pushchair when the lady tried to get her DD on, she had taken her DS out so she could fold pushchair and all sit together but the bus driver told her she could not get on as there were already 2 pushchairs onboard so she had to wait behind in the rain for the next bus.

I know pushchairs are entitled to use the bus but I thought you had to fold them if a wheelchair user was getting on and was quite shocked when the bus driver refused her a ticket, I spoke to her later on and she said it has happened a few times and it's just bad luck but I really don't think it's fair.

'did someone really compare having a baby in a pram with being a wheelchair...
"Being in a wheelchair will make your life more difficult, as does having a buggy with a baby in it"

Yes, they really did. I think they really believe it too.

Fwiw when you seriously argue that some unfoldable pram and shopping crap have greater need of a wheelchair space than someone in a wheelchair, your argument risks being précised as 'i am a selfish entitled dick'

SiamoFottuti - the bus company says it perfectly. Shame all bus companies dont take (and enforce) the same approach then this wouldn't become an issue

your argument risks being précised as 'i am a selfish entitled dick'

Selfish Entitled Cunt please. The majority of posters arguing for gigantic buggies and huge amounts of shopping being a disability are selfish cunts.

"Wheelchair users are people before they are wheelchair users."

Of course they are but that doesn't mean people can't give their needs some consideration.

An able bodied user gets on the bus and has a choice of several seats, assuming of course that the seats are all in use. If the seats are all in use they have the choice to stand. A pushchair user has the choice to use the wheelchair space, if it is free, or they have the choice to fold and use another seat. A wheelchair user only has one choice of seat and that is their wheelchair in the wheelchair space.

Actually accessible facilities were renames IIRC partly because the term "disabled facilities"is inaccurate, the facilities are not disabled, and also to do with the social model of disability, which is probably too complex to discuss in detail here...

I really think some posters are spectacularly missing my point.

All I'm trying to say is that I find it patronising for people to assume that using a wheelchair means you trump every other need. Because it doesn't.

The vast vast majority of the time, the wheelchair user will have the greatest need. Obviously. And as such, should get the space. I would be among the first to stand up and say so if the need arose.

I think many of the things that have been said on 'my side' of this debate are bollocks as much as most people do. And agree with many of the valid points that people on the 'other side' have made.

But when you think of the fit, healthy wheelchair user, who is capable of cycling 50 miles in an adapted bike, who has traveled around the world independently, has done numerous sky dives, who is a qualified scuba diving instructor, who regularly plays basketball, who works full time and does voluntry work teaching wheelchair skills to disabled children.

And then compare that to the harrased mother with a baby in a pram that they regret buying because it's too big, with a potty training toddler and a weeks shopping.

Is it really that big a leap to think that the Mum might be in more need than the wheelchair user?

I know I'm using very extreme examples and that the two people I'm on about are not likely to find themselves fighting over a space in a bus. I'm really just trying to open peoples minds to the fact that disabled people are NOT always the neediest.

It's that assumption that bugs me, because some (albeit very little) of the time, it's simply not true that the wheelchair user needs a bus space more.

I spend too much of my life helping to enable people who are disabled to achieve their potential and do amazing things to just ignore it when people that wheelchair users are always more in need than anyone else.

A pushchair user has the choice to use the wheelchair space, if it is free, or they have the choice to fold and use another seat. A wheelchair user only has one choice of seat and that is their wheelchair in the wheelchair space.

Honestly, I am not trying to argue against stuff like that. That's just common sense.

I spend too much of my life helping to enable people who are disabled to achieve their potential and do amazing things to just ignore it when people that wheelchair users are always more in need than anyone else.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what disability activists have been campaigning against. Sigh.

Fine

In your example, the wheelchair user says ok harassed mum, you have the space as you need it more

They then -what?

Fold up their wheelchair and drag themselves to a seat further along the bus?

Gallantly decide to wait for another bus, which may come much later, be carrying another poor mum, or be inaccessible

Fuck off home, it is patronising to expect the world to accomodate them so they can have an equal shot at participating in society?

I really really really want to know what happens next in your scenario

gwan gwan

Above is adhering to the charity model of disability, if anyone is still interested.

goes off to play with Riven elsewhere

Isn't it obvious?

They wait for the next bus, knowing that it is accessible, because if it's not then their need is greater!

Are people just arguing for the sake of it now?

Rollersara - I'd love to meet the disabled activist that campaigns against people being provided with support so they can achieve. That would be interesting. Or is my crime in daring to mention that I do something that benefits other people as well as myself?

Maryz - good point, I see it completely.

You do know that not every bus is wheelchair accessible, and that it isn't always possible to predict in advance whether the next bus will be accesible

you also presumably know that plenty of bus routes do not have frequent buses, and waiting for the next bus might mean waiting anywhere up to an hour

You really really think this is a reasonable expectation? Really?

keep digging bubbley, the giant sign above your head is just growing and growing.

Of course not.

That would be why I said that unless the chair user knew that another accessible bus would be along soon, as is a reasonable expectation in many places (obviously not all), then their need would be greater.

It's quite simple really. If the bus is full and all the pushchairs are folded and I cannot get on, that's fine. If I can't get on because people won't fold, get out of priority seats, move down the bus or upstairs or whatever, then I'd be mightily annoyed.

bubblesincoffee what a load of bollocks.
the picture you have painted is ....well stupid.
most people in wheelchairs are not fit and likely suffer other ways as well(epilepsy being one)
having a buggy/pram is not a disability, It is something most parents have to put up with for a short while.
a wheelchair is like a dog it isn't just for Christmas it is for life

How has this run to 23 pages when the answer is YANBU? Of course.

Bubbles, I don't recognise the disabled people you are talking about. Most people with disabilities find it hard to get around. Unless you do a medical and social care assessment each time a disabled person or a parents with a buggy gets on a bus to assess their needs, you might as well take it for granted that a disabled person gets priority. The longevity of disability is a big factor in how exhausting it is to be disabled or be a carer. Babies tend to grow up and within a few years, they are hopping on buses easily. It's a temporary problem for parents and should never be viewed as a disability. Ridiculous.

How about a button with a recorded message in the bus? With loudspeaker option?

'Oi you selfish cow, fold your buggy and let me use the wheelchair space.
RIGHT NOW! (optional swearing)'

Then those world champion basketball players and mountaineers in wheelchairs could just not use it, and spend their time on the bus building up their pecs on the hanging straps and bars.

OFGS!!! There are some really pig headed people on here! Buses were made with wheelchair spaces so that wheelchair users could access the bus at all, because old-style buses were completely inaccessible to a wheelchair (or unfolded pram), not so wheelchair users could take priority over all other customers. If a bus is full then the last in the queue are left waiting, regardless of ability (although I am sure lots of people would be curteous and offer their place to a disabled person). Obviously, if there are other spaces available then able bodied passengers should make space for the wheelchair by vacating the space and pushchairs should be folded, but if people have already paid it is just ridiculous to suggest some should be evicted from a bus to make space! Have skimmed most of thread and not seen anyone saying they wouldn't fold their pram if they could, but maybe I missed it!

The bus companies don't agree with you.

and you did miss it actually. Perhaps you should read properly before commenting.

That depends where you live! The buses I use have a sign by the accessible space indicating wheelchair and buggy space- it doesn't specify priority- although as a frequent bus user I have never seen a wheelchair turned away in favor of a buggy, glad I live here and not where some of you do- maybe people in yorkshire have a greater sense of decency and less entitlement than elsewhre, they seem to be able to share without arguments...

'OFGS!!! There are some really pig headed people on here'

Agreed. On both sides.