to think that wheelchairs should be priority on buses?

[mamadivazback]

My DS and I were on the bus today coming home from the town when I noticed a woman I vaguely know to speak to in the queue behind about 8 people with her 6YO DD who is in a narrow childs wheelchair and her DP with 2 year old son in small stroller so we waved, as you do.

Now the bus was about half full and 2 girls got on with their children in pushchairs, one with a very large Emmaljunga type and the other with a stroller and both children were happily sitting up by themselves and looked to be about 18 months old but neither thought to fold their pushchair when the lady tried to get her DD on, she had taken her DS out so she could fold pushchair and all sit together but the bus driver told her she could not get on as there were already 2 pushchairs onboard so she had to wait behind in the rain for the next bus.

I know pushchairs are entitled to use the bus but I thought you had to fold them if a wheelchair user was getting on and was quite shocked when the bus driver refused her a ticket, I spoke to her later on and she said it has happened a few times and it's just bad luck but I really don't think it's fair.

Hiding thread as non disabled ignorance about our lives is truly astounding.

Well exactly what if the person in the wheelchair is actual professor octavian, of xmen fame, and the mother is octomom and has to manage her octuplets in their pushchair? What if she is also juggling cats? Who is disabled THEN i ask you?????

This thread is now so stoopid it might actually eat itself

think i might follow rivens lead, the ignorance is outstanding,

so no it isn't patronising to allow a wheelchair user to use the wheelchair space

You can only make that judgement for yourself 2shoes, you cannot possible make the assumption that every wheelchair user will feel the same.

Riven - disabled people don't live one life ffs. Disabled covers a huge spectrum of disabilities.

You say 'our lives' is like me, the mother of a child with aspergers saying I face the same difficulties as a Mother of a child with severe autism. Both our dc have asd, our experiences are as different as night and day.

FWIW, I have a lot of knowlege of the lives of some disabled people. I am not at all ignorant to the difficulties wheelchair users face, and I have heard several wheelchair users complain about being patronised in situations just like the bus one!

And someone in a wheelchair shouldn't be having to argue with people all the time about who needs the space more. That in itself becomes a barrier to them using the bus. So it needs to be automatic. Because if someone who is going to be using a wheelchair for the rest of their life is sitting in their house thinking they can't use the bus, that's potentially going to have a massive effect on quality of life.

Ditto. what bubbles said. My DS is disabled, though the nature of the disability is not fully know yet. As a baby we needed to carry heavy medical equipment everywhere we went, and it was obvious to all that he was "different". I have a disabled adult friend whose main disability is mobility based, and I know quite a few parents of disabled kids online. I do not claim to know a lot about all disabled people, but I do know alot about some.

Unfortunately this seems to make me "ignorant" about "our lives". My disabled adult friend would hate to think of someone being kicked off a bus so she could get on - she would not think of this as fair at all, but as unwelcome preferential treatment. She would want someone to make space on a bus which wasnt' packed so she could get on. As would anyone, able bodied or otherwise.

But nobody NEEDS to be kicked off the bus if they just fold the pram on the rare occasion the space is needed by a wheelchair. Ok its not easy but it is more than doable.

Mum and baby sit down on a seat, wheelchair user in the wheelchair space = everyone happy!!

If there are no seats I would hope someone else would offer to stand so the mother and toddler could have a seat.

Where is the problem?

I havent read all of this thread but would like to point out that not all prams/pushchairs can be folded easily.
On mine the seat has to be removed from the frame to be folded. Suggesting that pushchairs should not be allowed on buses unless they are foldable is utterly ridiculous. We do not have a car. Any suggestions on how my two dc's and me can get into the city centre other than walking the 7 miles? Maybe we can ping there or use a magic feckin carpet so we don't offend anybody?!

When you got the pram did you know you would be using buses? If so I would say that the sensible thing is to consider the pram you get and how easy it is to fold for on the bus.

Sometimes a bus is so busy and is already standing room only so that there may be no room to fold the pram. I really don't see why the mother should be made to get off to allow the wheelchair user to get on, surely they have some rights as the first customer. We all have needs, rights and different circumstances. Being in a wheelchair will make your life more difficult, as does having a buggy with a baby in it. When you go for a bus that is often busy, then anyone of us may not be able to fit on and have to wait for the next bus.

FFS Bubbles, wouldn't you rather patronise a hundred wheelchair users who were happy to be left in the rain, than ignore one who didn't

No, I'd rather ask. Asking doesn't have to be patronising, but assuming is patronising.

Fold the bloody pram, offer the wheelchair user the wheelchair space, and if they decide they would rather stay at the stop, then fine

That's exactly what I'm saying!

Let the pram user offer the wheelchair person some space, and let them decide who needs it most between them. Just don't automatically assume that the wheelchair user must need the space more.

Do you really know wheelchair users who would look at a bus full of foldable prams, and say "oh, no don't bother budging up, I'm happy to wait (indefinitely) for the next bus", because I simply don't believe you.

First, it doesn't have to be indefinately. In many areas all busses are accessible. Because no, I don't know anyone who would wait indefinately, that's just silly.

But I do know plenty of wheelchair users than can think of other people before themselves, who can see that someone elses needs may be greater than their own, who can behave selflessly and put themselves out to do someone else a favour - even if that meant waiting for another bus rather than see a Mum struggle with shopping and a baby in a non foldable buggy. Surely that's not too hard to believe?

In fact, many of the disabled people I know go out of their way to do stuff like that to show people who are ignorant that they are not always needy, that they can offer kindness to others as well as take it, and they can contribute to society and to other people's welfare.

shuffle, you need to do what people did for years before disabled people campaigned for the right to be able to use buses..... which funnily enough is buy a pram that can be folded easily if needed.

Its a WHEELCHAIR SPACE. It is automatically for WHEELCHAIRS. Thats why it is not patronising to give the WHEELCHAIR SPACE to people in WHEELCHAIRS.

just to be even more clear: ANYONE WHO THINKS THEIR BUGGY HAS AS MUCH RIGHT TO THE SPACE AS A WHEELCHAIR IS A TWAT.

You make lots of sense bubbles- thank goodness someone does!

Which is why relying on the good will and social skills of others is ineffective, and enforced legislation is the answer. The prioritisation of your own needs above others, regardless of severity is what often happens.

Or should I refuse to patronise mothers by being helpful, and instead say 'You chose to get knocked up darlin' Deal with it'

What if one bus company decided to call it an accessible space, as I'm sure some do? In the same way that many disabled toilets are now called accesible toilets by those who own them.

Will you allow me to make a valid point then?

Personally, I think anyone who assumes that a wheelchair user is always more needy of something than someone else, no matter what, is a twat.

Wheelchair users are people before they are wheelchair users.

It's not as simple to say the wheelchair user should wait for the next bus. What if there's a pushchair on that one, and the next, and the next, and the....well you get the idea. A wheelchair user could end up waiting for hours, whereas if the position is reversed the pushchair user has the option to fold. No, it's not always easy but it is possible.

What some pushchair users need to remember is that if it wasn't for the DDA it's extremely unlikely that there would be accessible buses in existence and they would have to fold.

They are people who need a fucking wheelchair space though.

Our buses make it pretty clear for those morons that can't work it out for themselves.

*Passengers With Buggies

Low-floor buses are designed so that buggies can remain unfolded in the wheelchair space if it is free. Please make sure the buggy is safely positioned and the brake is on, unfolded buggies cannot travel in the gangway. You should be able to board any low-floor bus with a buggy. If the driver thinks that it is too crowded for you to board safely, he may refuse you boarding. The driver will not ask anybody already travelling to get off the bus to make room.

Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.

If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side.*

There is even a sign on the bus telling you that wheelchair users take priority. You can argue this point until you are blue in the face, you're just making yourself look stupid.

I think that the level of pampering, prioritising and neediness of a lot of parents and offspring has reached ridiculous levels in the last 20 years.
Perhaps you are right, pregnancy and having a dependent child has become a disability. The law may well change in my lifetime to allow the categories to be widened if enough parental pressure is brought to bear.

This thread is now so stoopid it can be seen from.space

i can't believe that there are people willing to argue the toss about whether WHEELCHAIR spaces should be for PEOPLE WHO USE WHEEELCHAIRS as opposed to a team of contortionists perhaps, or octomom, or someone with lots of shopping and a sore pimple maaan, and yet here we are

Apparently if a WHEELCHAIR USER wants to USE THE SPACE DESIGNATED FOR WHEELCHAIRS it means everone else must be kicked off the bus

Apparently they need to haggle over who needs it more with pram huns with their incredible unfoldable prams

apparently assuming that a SPACE DESIGNATED FOR WHEELCHAIRS. should be USED BY PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS no matter who got their first, even if it were Buddha himself is patronising

did someone really compare having a baby in a pram with being a wheelchair...
"Being in a wheelchair will make your life more difficult, as does having a buggy with a baby in it"
that just sums up the level of up your own arse ignorance disabled people are up against

I had to use the bus for abit cos had a section but i did so at the least busy period and in the knowledge that id just get off and walk if a wheelchair needed the space,its about 4 miles to town and so i appreciate thats easy for me to say but each stop took me closer iyswim.I felt a bit worried in case it caused bad feeling and the first time it happened i managed to still squash to one side and ended up having such a laugh with the guy and his wife that we still see each other 4 months later.I think everyone just needs to stop being self important and be nicer to each other,id have gladly got off the bus as i wouldnt want to look like a see you next tuesday