7yo often home alone in the morning, WWYD? If anything?

[Hufflepuzzpig]

I genuinely don't know. Neighbour's DS (nearly 8 but acts very young for his age) always goes in the car with his mum in the evening to pick up his dad from work, and he's not allowed to stay home/on the shared front lawn on his own while his mum goes.

In the mornings though, DH has noticed the DS is never with them, so the mum comes back and then takes him to school. I guess he must still be asleep or just doesn't get dressed on time or doesn't want to go.

Is that ok at that age? I wouldn't leave a 7yo home alone, but I expect many do and I don't think it's as terrible as DH does. He is generally more paranoid/helicoptery than me though. I know it's a really subjective issue, and the age at which parents let DCs be home alone varies massively.

I'd be happy for him to just come over for that time (about 30mins) in the mornings, even if he's in his PJs, should I suggest it? We don't know the parents that well, they are lovely but very shy and his mum in particular struggles with English. I could suggest it to the DS though, he likes it here.

I guess what I'm basically asking is - is nearly-8 old enough for this to be absolutely none of my business and I (and DH!) should chill because it's fine? Or is it a bit young to be home alone even for a short time?

"
The thing is, seeker, I agree with most things you're saying - a child SHOULD be encouraged to be independant."

But I don;t do it because I want him to be independent! I do it because he wants to and I see no reason to say no.

"And youre right, a sleeping baby cannot contact someone in case of emergency, eg a fire. Oh, hang on a minute, neither can a sleeping 7yo."

Neither can a sleeping adult! My point about not leaving a bay is that it wouldn;t understand, and could possibly be very upset, not that it counn't use the fire escape!

Seeker, sorry - I got you and exoticfruits mixed up
Exoticfruits said "a baby...[wouldnt] know what to do in case of emergency." Thats what I was responding to... again.

The only thing I disagree with you on is "I do it because he wants to and I see no reason to say no." I dont have an actual response, tho, cos the reasons that we feel are valid, you dont, so we have to just disagree [shrug]

I sadly know two families who have lost children in fires. Neither of the children were alone in the house at the time. If you were out of the house for 20 mins but awake then you'd be a lot more likely to be able to rescue your kids than if you were in the house with them but asleep.

Most seven year olds are capable of making sensible decisions in case of trouble. And if they are not, the parent is at most ten minutes away

Christine, again, I agree, but as I said previously, many people would stretch the 20/30mins, and nip into a shop, cos "they'll be fine" on their own for an extra 10 mins.
Have you seen how quickly a fire takes hold? Much faster than 10 mins. I'd rather be there in case it were to happen, than away from home unable to comfort/reassure them. IF something tragic happened when you had left a 7yo alone, you absolutely wouldnt be saying to yourself "theres nothing I could have done even if I'd been there"

and IF there was one sleeping adult and one sleeping child in a house that caught fire, one of you would likely be able to do SOMETHING, whether it is get out/get help/help the other person.
One 7yo probably couldnt do any of those things without being totally traumatised for having had to deal with it themselves.

Yes, possibly vmc. But the likelihood of houses catching on fire is very small (thankfully) nowadays - the children I knew that died both died in the 1970s when smoke alarms didn't exist and electrical appliances were a lot more dodgy. Nowadays most people that die in a fire die as a result of arson rather than anything else.

Actually I have just reviewed the child death stats. Most children die under the age of 1 (67%). And outside those deaths, most children die from drowning or car accidents. So it is statistically safer to leave your child at home rather than taking them in the car

Re fires - how often do they start up all by themselves, with no human intervention (e.g. electrical faults). Surely most fires are due to cigarettes, chip pans, etc., so unless the 7 year old is going to get out of bed and cook themselves some chips the chances of a fire are vanishingly small.

Of course there are malicious fires too, but I'd imagine these are more common where there's a history of problems with neighbours etc.

OK, off to google. I found this from 2000-2003,sorry doesn't line up very well but you get the idea...

Cause 2001/2 2002/3
% %
Accidents while cooking 53 54
Heating appliances fires (incl. chimney fires) 9 9
Electrical equipment/wiring fires 9 8
Arson 6 5
Candles 4 5
Accidents with matches and other smoking materials 6 5
Children playing with fire (not matches/cigarette lighters) 4 4
All other causes if fires 9 11
Unweighted N 487 534

Agree - they are very, very unlikely. Like I said, you're more likely to have a fatal car accident than a fire in your home (fatal or otherwise).

I can't see what harm is going to befall a sleeping 7 year old. Worst is that you aren't back within 20 mins for whatever reason. But in 20 years of commuting I've always made it where I was supposed to be within an hour or so of my expected arrival time. I assess risk by likelikhood - what ifs are a recipe for agoraphobia

I agree, the risks are small. But a fire was just one example. And leaving a 7yo asleep now and again is very different to doing it every single morning, where the parent could become complacent.
Where we differ on opinion is whether a 7yo could handle anything out of the ordinary without being very upset/traumatised. THAT'S the main reason I'd want to stay at home or take them with me.

As has been said before, there are ways for a child to become independent without leaving them in charge of a house.ghfg

I agree, the risks are small. But a fire was just one example. And leaving a 7yo asleep now and again is very different to doing it every single morning, where the parent could become complacent.
Where we differ on opinion is whether a 7yo could handle anything out of the ordinary without being very upset/traumatised. THAT'S the main reason I'd want to stay at home or take them with me.

As has been said before, there are ways for a child to become independent without leaving them in charge of a house.ghfg

Strange, found this elsewhere:

"Smoking materials and matches were the most frequent cause of accidental fire deaths in the home - 41% of the total."

Maybe the people in the previous list were smoking while cooking .

I repeat - for waht seems like the millionth time. I don't leave my son alone in the mornings as a exercise in independence. i do it because he would prefeer to be left than to get up earlyier than he needs. My dd would have been more likely to fly unaided than want to be left in similar circumstances.

We have no "smoking materials" and we have to buy a new box of matches every time someone has a birthday because we can never find the one we bought last time. Our neighbours are within easy shouting distance. I leave ds s note in case he wakes up and forgets where I am. He is very capable of using the phone. He would probably not deal well with an axe wielding homicidal maniac - but then neither would I.

Late to this thread but i have the opposite situation to some of you in that we live in the middle of a field on a farm, with no neighbours to call on.

However, I have started to leave my 10 year old ds alone whilst I take dd swimming (50mins). It hadn't really occurred to me to do it before as he was always happy to come, but when he asked if he could stay home I was very happy. He is usually in exactly the same position as when I left him ie - in front of the telly or on the computer!!

I have now started to leave him 'in charge' of my twins (aged 3) whilst I pick up dd from Brownies at 8pm (20 mins). They are fast asleep so none the wiser that I am gone and if I had to keep them up until we got home they would be unbearably tired and grotty!! Again, I have only just started doing this and it is a fantastic feeling to think that ds is growing up and responsible enough for me to be happy with him doing this.

It's wierd because it feels like a bit of a revolution that I don't have to take FOUR children everywhere with me now. And I love it. And so does he. He has a list of numbers to call if he is worried, but obviously no neighbours, but I reckon he is maybe safer out here in the country with nobody else around iyswim.

For us 7 would have been too young because he would have freaked out and been scared - as would my 7 year old dd, so we don't do it with her. But now it just seems normal. I guess I am trying to say that there will probably just be a natural time when everyone is happy leaving their dc on their own for short periods of time, it just kind of evolves when everybody is ready to do so. There is no right or wrong age for the whole population.

And yes, if he would have been happy, I would have left him for 20 mins asleep in the morning at aged 7. What harm could possibly come to him whilst (probably) asleep??

I guess I am trying to say that there will probably just be a natural time when everyone is happy leaving their dc on their own for short periods of time, it just kind of evolves when everybody is ready to do so. There is no right or wrong age for the whole population.

That is the entire point and the reason for not having blanket 'rules'. If someone has to ring ss and ask- then they are not ready. They do it when it feels right and it isn't up to someone to get all judgy and tell them it is wrong, when all they really mean is that it is wrong for them.

I would expect that you are perfectly safe Poppyella. I recently stayed in a farm B & B. As we arrived the entire household were going to be out at a grandaughter's birthday party. We wanted to go straight out and I enquired about a key and was just told 'we never lock the door-it will all be open'. When we got back the place was deserted-it was indeed open. They had some lovely furniture and ornaments. They were old enough to have grandchildren, so they had been doing it for years and years. If someone isn't going to steal the silver I expect that a DC is safe for 20 mins. My brother never locks his door-he lives in the middle of nowhere. If you live in a crime infested, city area you wouldn't leave your DC for even 5mins.
People need to work these things out for themselves.

"People need to work these things out for themselves."

Right!

Then they end up on MN with hundreds of replies because someone else wouldn't do it and labels it 'wrong' or thinks because their DC isn't ready, all DCs are not ready or because they live in a dodgy area they can't understand never locking your door.
Or they have to have permission from a higher authority i.e SS-who are never going to give it because they would then be responsible! Heads would roll if there was an accident and someone said 'but x at ss told meI could do it'. If you are not able to take responsibility yourself and need 'permission' then you shouldn't do it.

Seeker, was your last comment aimed at me? I'm aware of why you did this, but most people had previously given the reason that kids need to be independent.

I think that you are muddling people up-I have said that I think that it is a good idea to give independence. I admit to leaving them because they don't want to go everwhere, but it was also an aim-mainly for me -as I do see myself as over protective. They get to age where it just isn't fair to take them everywhere. I can't see any justification for making an 11/12yr old sit around at a swimming pool for a 4 yr old's lesson-especially since we went out for the lesson before DS1 got off the school bus. He had a key and let himself in at home.

I know I'm going to regret this, and there is going to be a catalogue of flood, fire, pestilence, burst boilers, ax murderers, dark riders and cats having fits, but when was the last time anything out of the ordinary happened in anyone's house between 7.15 and 7.35 am?

"I know I'm going to regret this, and there is going to be a catalogue of flood, fire, pestilence, burst boilers, ax murderers, dark riders and cats having fits, but when was the last time anything out of the ordinary happened in anyone's house between 7.15 and 7.35 am?"

Great post Seeker!

Does it even cross people's mind as they get out of bed that they will experience it within the next hour? Why will it only happen the moment they leave the premises? I can only suppose that the adult is the 'lucky talisman' that keeps it all at bay!

Exotic, agreed. Except imo and ime, 7 is too young.
Seeker, I'll now repeat for the millionth time, an adult isn't a lucky talisman. An adult howrver would help with any emergency that did arise. An adult would comfort and calm an upset 7yo in an emergency. An adult would support said child.
In this op, the child is left each morning. But not everyone has mentioned leaving a sleeping child. Some would leave a child at any time of day.
And in any case, many "disasters" such as water dripping thru ceiling are discovered first thing in the morning

Water dripping through the ceiling would be discovered before the parent went out.
I think we are forgetting it is all about OP- where the DC is not left at any time of day-they are taken when up and about and left first thing-something the parents have worked out and are comfortable with.
The DC who is left would pop around next door and be comforted and supported in the few mins it takes the parent to get home.

My 7 yo, in a safe place, within full sight of both of us, fell and broke her wrist - both bones. The screaming and panic that ensued will stay with me for always. I can't imagine leaving her alone for 20 mins in that scenario.

Social services would write to mum and dad and tell her that it is not approprate to leave a 7 year old alone in the house, they would advise that should anythng happen to that child when they were not home they would likey face a neglect charge...if police were called when children are home alone parents would be cautioned!!! They would say if they had reports of this again they would have to carry out an assessment!!

U dont know whats happening in that home, it may be a small part of a larger picture.. report them.