to think that if you tell someone that your child is vegetarian...

[Tollund]

that they should respect this and not then try to feed them meat?!

At a birthday party with DS1 who is four and a parent there offered my DS a sausage. DS took one (as he didn't know is it was veggie or not) and I politely said to the man "thank you, but he's vegetarian."

He said "yes, I know, they told me that. But I thought I'd see if he wanted one, and he took one, so let him have it."

I ignored him and told DS not to eat it.

THe man then started on at me about how I should let him make his own choices and to let him eat it which I refused to be drawn into, politely telling him no and then walking away.

He then went up to the mother of the child whose party it was (about 10 feet away from me) and starts banging on about me not letting him eat meat!

I think this man was monumentally ignorant - why does he think he is in a position to make food choices for my four year old child? What if DS was Jewish? Or had allergies? I'm now loathe to let my DS anywhere near this man's child or to go to parties where this man might be - IABU? (I don't think I'm BU in terms of making dietary decisions for my son at this time in his life, but whether am BU in wanting to keep my DS very far away from that tool!)

Only because his parents have decided for him. I'm not saying they shouldn't-all parents decide on their DCs diet. At 4yrs anyone should respect the parents wishes, but by 8yrs they should be deciding for themselves and if they wish to help themselves to sausages at a party I can't see a problem.

You give birth to a DC but it isn't in your gift to decide what they think-you bring them up the way you see fit, but it is up to them to follow or not.

I don't think they can be called vegetarian until they have consciously decided for themselves-in the same way that they can't be Christian etc-They are merely the DC of Christians-being brought up as a Christian-when they consciously make the decision they can then be given the label-and they may decide they don't want it.

LieInsAreRarerThanTigers I was referring back to something that Redbin said which was

OP should have said "thank you but I don't allow him to eat meat". Pretending that a 4 year old has made a rational decision to be vegetarian is ridiculous.

Sorry I think I meant to direct that post to Redbin really.

I have a friend who was raised vegetarian, and as a result lacks the ability to process meat. For this reason I wouldn't raise my own children veggie, as in cases such as hers, even as an adult she cannot make the choice to eat meat. What others do with their kids is up to them though.

But for the same reason I would say YANBU, my same friend was hospitalised at age 7 after eating meat at a birthday party. I have no idea how common/rare her situation is, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for making a child ill. This guy had no knowledge of why your DS wasn't allowed the sausage or what the outcome would be, it is not his choice.

No, YANBU. As a parent you have the right to determine how your child is brought up and that includes what your child eats. Plenty of people choose to restrict their children's diet one way or another, e.g. restricting sugar and sweets or crisps, but they seem to think you're being unreasonable to restrict your son's diet for ethical reasons - they are BU IMHO. You are the parent - you make the decisions, until your child is old enough to decide for himself.

I think you were very restrained - I'm not sure I would have been in the same circumstances.

threefeethigh and ladyclarice

Sorry I've been at work!

Do you not find it odd that there is someone in the world (i.e. me) who has a research interest in ancient shit?!

Anyway, there are many theories of why humans invented agriculture and domesticated animals and developed a nice side line in booze and dairy products, and the pottery to keep it in and demonstrate cultural traits. The evidence doesn't really seem to show a big booze culture till after sedentary planned agriculture really got going.

There's also an argument that animals were domesticated not primarily for meat (except perhaps for status occasions) but mostly for work - draught animals, herding dogs etc - and then for 'secondary products' such as milk, butter and cheese. Cheese would have been particularly valued I guess as it stores well and is high in calories. Ditto beer!

Most orthodox jews send their children to jewish schools - one of the reasons is that they are worried about this sort of thing happening.

YANBU, but where do you draw the line. What happens if your DC wanted to eat the sausage. What happens when he is older and is not there with a parent.

FutureNannyOgg, very dubious about that. Any big sudden change in your diet may cause upset, but if you really wanted to introduce meat having been brought up veggie (which some people do, so you could ask them) you could do it bit by bit. I was veggie for 20 years (well, with some fish for about 10) and now eat a bit of meat once or twice a week. As long as I don't eat a huge amount I suffer no ill effects at all. DD was veggie for first 7 years, ditto.
Not a reason to feed children meat if it goes against your ethics.

That's not to say your particular friend might not have some particular sensitivity to meat - or she might have eaten a dodgy sausage from the sausage-pusher!

I can't answer for the OP, forever but as a vegan parent of from-birth vegetarian children I can tell you that I wouldn't have allowed my child to eat the meat sausage whether he wanted to or not.

I can hear the cries of disagreement from here. :o Nothing will ever change my mind though so I can only warn you all that I wouldn't bother trying if I were you! For the record no meat is served in this house ever unless you have 4 legs and fur and I've got two passionately AR supporting daughters and so I'm 99.99% positive that they don't/wouldn't eat meat behind my back either.

I would view it in the same way as if my DC wanted to kick my dogs. They may want to do it but it's cruel, immoral and wrong and it's my place as a parent to stop you from behaving in an unkind way and to give you sound moral guidance. Therefore regardless of what they want, they aren't doing it.

Tsk! Sorry, there are 2 "you's" in my post above which should be "they's". :)

A vegetarian mum at school had brought up her children on a vegetarian diet. When her DS reached the age of 5 and started going to birthday parties on his own, he discovered the delights of ham and couldn't get enough of it. His mum was very laid back and decided to allow him to eat it if he wanted as a "treat", but made it clear to him he wouldn't get it at home. He did eat rather a lot of ham at the time, but now has got over that craze.

He then went up to the mother of the child whose party it was (about 10 feet away from me) and starts banging on about me not letting him eat meat!

Ironic....I mean he was BANG out of order right?

But it's perfectly justified to set up an internet forum thread behind this man's back and slate him (in the way that has happened here)?

Hoping for a bit of 'karma' here....that the hosts of the party (and other fellow parents) get wind of this, recognise the situation and tell this guy what he's been called on here.

To me...this thread...and many of the comments within it are far worse than what the man was originally supposed to have said. I say "supposed" because after the way the OP has behaved here...I'm highly sceptical.

whosegotmyeyebrows I would request that you refrain from diving in to respond to this comment....
I think you have dominated the thread enough!! and the OP is perfectly capable (I am sure) of speaking for herself.

"Hoping for a bit of 'karma' here....that the hosts of the party (and other fellow parents) get wind of this, recognise the situation and tell this guy what he's been called on here."

I hope so too, Sausage.

Then they can tell him that I have added the terms bully, uncivilised prick, philistine, barbarian and complete and utter fucking tosspot to the names he's already been called.

start a thread about someone in AIBU on Mumsnet? She'll be putting horse's heads in his bed next....oh no she won't. Rotten vegetables should do the trick

@ DBF

sausages - have another

In case I haven't made myself really clear, may I add that I'd be delighted to meet the man and tell him my thoughts although I can't promise to be willing to take him to A&E in order that he could have the sausage removed from where I'd have shoved it.

In that case you're saying you'd be delighted to 'meat' the man, DBF?

To clarify tollund

It wasn't ok for this man to describe the event to the host within ear-shot of you....that ticked you off?

But it is ok for you to come on an internet forum....slate him off behind his back and have him called all sorts?

That's ok?

Very strange logic....and again, I hope the hosts, fellow guests and he finds out.

The paedophile comment was particularly out of order....
You would condone that of course?

Just as well he's not named here...as he would have a case for suing for libel, defamation of character and all the rest.

Oh sausages , if I must engage...

Where have I "called him all sorts"? I've called him a tool and a sausage pusher, and if I ever have the misfortune to be stuck in a small room with him I'll have no problem with calling him that to his face.

Why do you keep going on about the hosts etc finding out? So they find out, so what? They realise that this guy's behaviour was appalling, and what? Perhaps he'll rethink his shitty attitude? Worst case scenario they don't invite DS to any more meat fests.

What is your problem, are you him?

I personally think that if you're going to restrict a child's diet for reasons of ethics/spirituality as opposed to health its better to do so when the child is old enough to understand it and make their own decisions, as opposed to when they are tiny and will likely grow up to resent it. And I think taking a sausage away from a kid at a party is a bit OTT. Having said that, ultimately its up to you to bring your kids up how you like and its none of anyone else's business. And the man was clearly an arse of the highest order who wanted to project his views on everyone.

Don't be ridiculous...

Of course I am not him. If I were I'd be taking you to task...

The point I am making...is that YOU are no better than him...in fact you are hypocritical moaning about him slating you to the host (within earshot) and then creating this thread and slating him behind his back....and NOT condoning some apallingly offensive comments...

You....are NO better than him....

Now...I think I've made my point quite clearly....it's getting really boring!

So I'll leave you and your friends to F and blind for a few more pages.

Sausages, threads on mumsnet, not even just in the AIBU section, very often end up with the criticism/bad mouthing of someone's behaviour. Do you stop by on every one of those threads and criticise the OP for starting something? Just interested.

Indeed MoChan.

sausages have you ever read a thread on AIBU before, or is it just that this is a subject obviously close to your heart that it has got you so riled?

All sounds a bit Freudian to me. Is the man attractive? YABU, your child will chose in the end.