How miserable are you that the Tories are in power?

[sundayrose10]

I feel tense and twitchy. I used to enjoy reading the politic section/ other political forums, but I fear if I keep on going there and reading more and more about Tory plans, I will give myself a heart attack.

I loath them but worst I fear them. I am anxious for this country and the ordinary man and woman.

Dave makes me feel insane with hatred.

I have a colleague who is in love with the Tories. I don't share biscuits with him any more.

Dave makes me itch. All over.

There are 21 millionaires on the Tory benches. The party is handsomely supported by many big businesses who have been given tax 'advice' and concessions to avoid their full tax liabilities.

It is absurd to say that that as a country 'we' 'can't afford' to sustain a decent level of public spending, when there are very many people and businesses in thus country who can afford to contribute more to society.

The cuts are ideological.

YANBU those who are 'very happy' or 'life is good' clearly earn enough money not to feel sick to their stomachs when local facilities are shut, or the busfare goes up by a quid as subsidies are cut or panic because the local school is really not great but you can't afford to move or go elsewhere...

Bet some Downing Street adviser is watching this thread very avidly. Or maybe Sam Cam is and will report back to Dave tonight!

I'm not worried at all - I'm relieved! Surely you didnt want Labour to continue . I think the cuts are necessary. Also (getting my tin hat at the ready!) I think we need to have a drains up on the NHS - yes - I know it has been done before but we cannot continue in making all sorts of ops and conditions free despite the cost.

We cannot seem to have a realistic discussion about the NHS. It is not the Holy Grail. We can debate it.The things I would cut and again I am expecting a backlash are:

1. cosmetic surgery for people who dont like their big nose or say they cannot get on with life without a gastric band. Go on a diet!

1. IVF (I know this is a touchy subject) the success rate isnt high considering the cost.

1. Undertaking ops on grossly overweight people who have made no effort to lose weight

1. Horrible receptionists at GP's surgeries who state you must call on the day for an appointment and then you cannot get through. By the time you do the appointments have all gone! What is the point of them?

1. Fine people who call 999 for no good reason

Having experienced the NHS recently - they are disorganised. Has anyone ever been to A&E in the last year. Who are all the people shounting, screaming, drunk waiting to be seen? Is it because it is free that people are turning up? And can we please limit the number of people who are allowed to turn up with a potential patient? No more than 1 please. Having had to sit on a floor for 2 hours because an Asian family had brought 7 members along with them and there were no seats. My Asian friend says it is cultural and that that is the way they like to do things. At a hospital? And any one turning up drunk to visit a patient shouldnt be allowed in!

We have just had news through that there will be 2400 new council houses built in my borough. This will replace the council housing stock which was sold off due to the right to buy scheme. Dont know if theses housing plans started under Labour or the Tories.

YANBU. I have seen a few Prime Ministers in my time, and have not been in complete agreement with all of them. David Cameron is the first who I actually cannot bear to hear speak. He is a chinless, vile man and I cannot abide his patronising manner of speech and ill considered policies. I should imagine he will be remembered as one of the biggest failures and least popular Prime Ministers of the century. I also think his true colours are shown by the people he chooses to hobnob with, namely Andy Coulson and Rebekah Brooks.

Seriously rocky? is that a joke? i dont get it.

The NHS is the envy of the world. sociallys peaking it is a wonderful concept. yes again there are failures but on the whole it is fantastic.

Turning away drunk people? does that mean that alcoholics should be refused treatment? I dont think they turn up becaue its free. A and E isnt fun even if you are drunk. Thats not to mention the taxes they have contributed when choosing to buy the alcohol that got them drunk.

1person per patient? i cannot drive. yet recently had to take dd to hospital. my dad took us and came in with us. he held the changing bag and equiptment whilstg i carried my dd. should he have sat in the car while i struggled alone?

do you not think it would cost to police visitors as well? who is going to check whether a patients visitor is drunk on entry? where will they find the time to do this?

have a

There are 21 millionaires on the Tory benches. The party is handsomely supported by many big businesses who have been given tax 'advice' and concessions to avoid their full tax liabilities.

What's your point? It's not like Labour was full of common folk, was it. Was Peter Mandleson a pauper? His Tonyness? Does Gordon Brown wait for his tax credits each week?

Also, would you rather a bunch of "average joes" who don't understand the realities of business and how it works was in charge? Drag a bunch of people off Jezza Kyle studios. Cos they know how to keep it real!

It is absurd to say that that as a country 'we' 'can't afford' to sustain a decent level of public spending, when there are very many people and businesses in thus country who can afford to contribute more to society.

Why is it absurd? Are you denying we have a deficit? Or do you naively believe that tax the rich is the answer?

The cuts are ideological.
What's wrong with that? I expect the Tories to be true to their ideals, just as much as I'd expect Labour to be true to theirs. What would be wrong is voting in the Tories and them acting like Labour. That's why the Lib Dems have been punished so hard. We voted in a bunch of lib dems and they acted like Tories.

fifis - that's good news for your borough. I am on the fence regarding right to buy - for some people it gave them a one in a million opportunity to own their own place. However, my DB brought a flat in London where the chap had brought it as a right to buy. Made a £200k profit!! Although he then brought another house way out of London as he had to live somewhere.

Where we used to live at the end of town was a square of council houses. All bar one had been brought. They were neat and tidy and clearly the owners took a lot of pride in them. A friend of mine works as a surveyor for the council. He has shown me pics of council houses that have literally be wrecked by tennants, they try and find them and fine them but he says there is no real chance to get any real money out of them.

Why do people do this??

Pregnant - no I'm not joking. I knew that any critizism of the NHS is taken badly. But it does need reviewing. Everything for free even if you have not made a contribution? How does that work?

Not at all.

Rocky, I absolutely agree with you about NHS money being wasted on cosmetic operations etc.

FGS, if people can't afford to pay for their own IVF then how can they afford to support a child? Oh yes, I forgot, we the dumb taxpayers will pay them benefits.

Also agree with NiceGuy. People who earn a good salary are always vilified on MN. We do pay between 40 and 50% tax on everything we earn, on top of all the other taxes.

Rocky - My council has strict 12 month introductory tenancies in place. I dont think that could happen here. The majority of my estate is private now with very few council houses. A lot of the houses are owned by buy to let landlords. The homeless lists are huge with families in B&B's. One mother i know sits in the council offices all day with her very young kids as she has to get out the B&B after breakfast and cant return till night time.

Niceguy2

Of course there are millionaires in the Labour party, Green party, UKIP etc. That is the point. As a country, we are wealthy.

Money is distributed very unequally in this country (and every country worldwide). Why is this necessary? Why is it necessary for some people to have more money than they can spend in a lifetime, whilst others struggle to afford to eat? It is not necessary, it is absurd.

So yes, I do think that money should be distributed more equally, and if you have a better solution of how to male this happen than taxation, pray tell.

If you are prepared to admit that the cuts are ideological, and that screwing the poor and vulnerable is something you stand for, then that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion. Just don't pretend that there is no choice.

By the way, i am totally against the right to buy scheme

Doesn't matter what you say, I feel an unease, a vague background buzz of fear when the tories are in.

I'm with Aneurin Bevan all the way

Rocky- But who hasnt made a contribution? We all pay taxes, we have all contributed. Becuase i only earn 17000 pa that means i have paid less than someone who earns 45000pa, should i not get equal treatment because i have not contributed as much?
What if people havent contributed at all, should they be left to die? what of children?!
fwiw i agree on the cosmetic surgery aspect and am undecided re the ivf argument, but to refuse treatment due to intoxication seems like madness. how do you know that those people in and e are not in fact rich wealthy contributing drunks?

Thistledew, at the moment, everyone earning over about £40k pa pays 40% of everything they earn in taxes.

Over £100k, we lose any tax allowance, and over £150k, we pay 50%.

So last year, I earned £182,000 and contributed £76,000 in tax for the benefit of the poor (our children are in private schools, we have private health insurance etc). My dp earned just over £100k, so contributed another £40,000.

I don't think it would be fair to pay any more than that.

It is not impossible for people on low wages to better themselves, they just need to make the effort. If they can't get a job, start a business, or at least do voluntary work to get some experience.

YABvU and stupid too. The country was spending far more money than it could afford and to avoid a "Greek" situation spending has had to be cut back. Not far enough in my opinion, as we will still be spending at the same rate as we were in 2005!! So much for killing off the state economy. Let's get back to the levels of 1997 when the govenment spent less than 40% of GDP, still more than most of our international competitors.

I couldn't agree more with Rock12 about the NHS. People totally abuse the service. A doctor I know well was in A&E one night at 4am. In came a girl in an ambulance complaining of sore feet after dancing all night in a club. On being sent packing she demanded another ambulance to take her home. It was refused. British people need to grow up and take responsibilty for their own health care. They don't expect to be fed by the government in state supermarkets so why should they expect health care delivery from a state system.

Pregnantpause says that the NHS is the envy of the world. Utter rubbish, not one country has copied it and we have also the worst health outcomes of any developed country. The debate in this country is puerile, assuming it's either the NHS or the "American" system, aside from the fact that most UK comment about health care in the US is usually nonsense, based on complete ignorance. There are many alternative approaches as exemplified by France, Germany, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. There many better ways of managing health care than the NHS. Ask the many citizens of developed countries where they would prefer to have treatment for a serious illness, in their own countries or in the UK using the NHS. Most expats that I know go privately or get on the first plane home.

I hate them with every fibre of my being. Our local Tory Council has closed everything that my ASD DS (21) does and he is so upset that he screams and cries all of the time.

Some of the attitudes on this thread disgust me. The mark of civilised society is how it treats their most vulnerable members.

I fear the tories much less than I fear GB. GB put the country in the mess it is currently in. There is no point in blaming tories for the mess of the previous government.

I agree Jolene, the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude sucks. It just about sums up the tory ethos though, doesn't?

Sweden is currently seeing the highest rate of growth out of the recession. They pay between 54% and 67% tax. And 25% VAT. If we need to pay more tax, we need to pay more tax (and I speak as a higher rate tax payer).