How miserable are you that the Tories are in power?

[sundayrose10]

I feel tense and twitchy. I used to enjoy reading the politic section/ other political forums, but I fear if I keep on going there and reading more and more about Tory plans, I will give myself a heart attack.

I loath them but worst I fear them. I am anxious for this country and the ordinary man and woman.

Dave makes me feel insane with hatred.

I have a colleague who is in love with the Tories. I don't share biscuits with him any more.

Dave makes me itch. All over.

[allegrageller]

confused? yep, I am by people who believe every word that falleth from Murdoch's mouthpieces.

I am sorry, are you seriously telling me that EVERY Afghan family who come to this country are immediately housed at £12k per month?

You're not, are you....it was probably one or two extremely poor council housing decisions.

[allegrageller]

And also, isnt' HB now being capped/cut anyway so that evil immigrants cant' take our overpriced houses as well as our jobs/women/dogs etc? you should be happy now.

[AlpinePony]

Are you hard of understanding or attempting to be deliberately obtuse? It's not clear.

[allegrageller]

are you always this patronising, alpine? It's not particularly endearing

[allegrageller]

and it was a genuine question. Show me the figures proving Rocky's loony DM claims and fine, I will doff my cap to you like a good peasant.

[AlpinePony]

Are you able to show the post which says "all immigrants get 12k a month hb"? I can't seem to find it anywhere, so must I'm afraid refer you to my previous post.

[MrsGuyOfGisbourne]

lol at the idea of 'someone in Downing Street watching this thread avidly' - halfbaked bleating from those put up by the opposition to start threads on social media sites is hardly doing to keep them awake at night, when they have a helluva job tryng to salvage the country from the mess left by Gordon Brown.

[Chen23]

Sorry Alpine pony but I'm not clear as to what Rocky was getting at either tbh

Her list of what defined a vulnerable person pretty quickly deteriorated into a rambling shopping list of Daily Mail outrage cliche's.

Yes I'm sure there was a case where an Afghan refugee family were claiming £12K a month, what you can extrapolate from that is unclear to me. These kind of insane decisions are outliers, they're the exception, not the rule; that's why they make headlines. These kind of ludicrous cases being used as the basis for a discussion on (for instance) asylum seekers benefits is really not helpful imo.

They do a good job of getting people like Claig worked up into a froth of righteous anger over his cornflakes in the morning but not that representational of how asylum seekers are treated on the whole; by and large they live in pretty abject poverty in extremely meager circumstances.

[aquashiv]

I think people are waking up to what they are really like . Think about how the Tory press went after Gordon Brown and the depths they went to with their hate campain. Whatever people think about Labour and how they invested greatly in public sector services and perhaps fostered a Nanny State. He took the country through an extended period of wealth growth and expansion. Its interesting to see how Cameron behaves as so far he seems to be shitting himself. Where is he what is he saying really?

[alemci]

Actually I think Rocky's point about the Afghan family is valid. They had a massive house in Ealing next to an MP. The son did up cars for cash in hand. Why wouldn't tax payers be slightly frustrated when they can only dream of living in a house like that. It is very strange when some people are told their teenagers have to share cramped accomodation yet someone who has made no contribution is given a large house to live in.

There was also a another family who were rehoused because they didn't like the area they lived in (shame). It was Brent and they were given a house in Mayfair rent free. Beggars can't be chosers springs to mind but in this country it seems they can.

I don't understand why people think this is okay.

why is it ok for people whose families have been here for generations not to be given priority in housing over people who have just stepped off a plane. I seem to remember N Labour finally admitting that this was the case even though they kept on denying this. I think the hostel is a very good idea. Also I don't think the stories are made up. you hear things from many different sources.

I think NL were not good for this country. Not sure about the Tories either but what can you do.

[Chen23]

"I don't understand why people think this is okay."

Not sure who you're saying thinks this is OK; it's patently not, but my point is that it's not the norm and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat asylum seekers with or portrayed as representative of social housing provision in the UK.

There's obviously a problem if any cases like these occur and there's no reason I can see for them to happen but in any system with millions of claimants there will be fuck ups, as unforgiveable as they are.

[allegrageller]

the point I am making is that by highlighting the 12k a month Afghan family rocky12 was clearly implying that this is some sort of norm, if not the thin end of a terrible wedge. Which is clearly bollocks.

[Xenia]

The greater waste is how much we fund of housing benefit. At £20k cap per family is far far too high. if it means the poor cannot afford to live in London where none of the middle classes cannot afford to live and might have to slum it out here in zone 5 well I doubt it will kill them and yet Boris J is cross people might actually have to move. I don 't see why we should be paying more than £20k to families many of whom don't work and have that £20k plus their benefits on top of it.

[RetroHousewife]

I agree entirely, Xenia.

Essentially, those who rely on the state for most or all of their financial support should no be living a better lifestyle than those that work.

[niceguy2]

Yep, I also agree. I don't see why it's wrong to suggest that those who otherwise cannot afford to live in central London without huge state subsidies should not live there.

After all, if as a working person I cannot afford to live there then I certainly don't expect the taxpayer to fund me.

[RetroHousewife]

Nor to pay a higher mortgage so you can live in a bigger house if you have more children.

In fact, I also suspect your employer doesn't up your salary every time Mrs Niceguy gets up the duff, either.

Why we treat benefit claimants in this way, god only knows.
Why we don't have a simple system of a set annual benefits " salary" I don't know.

I mean, seriously, who in gods name came up with a system whereby you got MORE money and a BIGGER house if you bred MORE children you couldn't afford? Did no one actually work out what would happen?

[Xenia]

We have the system because of the safety net. However if we had a system based on 2 chidlren in a family on benefits and if you need more money then you get free charity shop clothes and a soup kitchen and an extra mattrress for the floor (I earn quite a bit and even my children share rooms - it doesn't kill you) it would work. Nor do I think children suffer. Most of all they need love and food and shelter.

[RetroHousewife]

Again we agree Xenia ( two of my kids share too).

[unclefest]

free charity shop clothes? so the charities are meant to give them away rather than erm, collect for charity? Yet more Daily Fail posturing twaddle.

[RetroHousewife]

I assume Xenia meant that the taxpayer purchased the clothes that were given to those who needed then rather than up the benefits ?

[unclefest]

well they aren't free. Last time I shopped at Oxfam they cost about as much as George at Asda. It's a lazy assumption to think that ALL on benefits don't take these measures. When we were on benefits after leaving a violent marriage with nothing but the clothes we stood up in we did nothing but wear secondhand stuff, had secondhand furniture, lived in a near condemnable state house where we all caught pneumonia. Oh, the good old days on benefits

[unclefest]

though I agree that there are of course ALWAYS those who abuse a benefits system. I do agree. I don't despise Tory voters, and I have a lot of time for the Tories policy of reducing state intervention into, for example, personal liberty. I just don't get the feeling that many of you voting Tory know what it's like to be up shit creek without a paddle.

[Chen23]

"I mean, seriously, who in gods name came up with a system whereby you got MORE money and a BIGGER house if you bred MORE children you couldn't afford?"

Isn't it interesting how middle class people "have children" or "give birth" but the poor "breed"?

[alemci]

my children did share but fortunately we managed to extend our house so that my dd could have separate rooms. they went back to sharing as we had a guest last week and result was awful with alot of mess.

Yes, I agree Retro no one has paid for the extension apart from us (as it should be) so my dd can have her own room so why do people not earning and being irresponsible with birth control have a right to a bigger house? Perhaps I am being a bit harsh but it should be questioned. The values system in this country are topsy turvey.

Also it seemed like the asylum seekers were being treated better than some of the people already in council accommodation who were told that it was too bad if mixed sex teenagers were sharing and the kitchen counted as a bedroom. I remember one client who was in this situation telling me this.

How come the Afghan family were given such a large house. Also in my experience some people on benefits are very snobby about what they wear and charity shop clothes would be good enough. Labels are important to them.

[Rocky12]

Certainly the view that the more children you have (with no visble means of suppport) the more you get has got to stop! And why people who have the completely opposite view to you blame the Daily Mail etc is beyond me.

We have got to stop this reliance on the state to pay you more and more the less and less you contribute.

And my point about the Afghan family - and it is true btw is that there monthly rent equated to 10 years of my mum paying her council tax. It came down in the end to the woman having lots of children of different ages who were 'entiled' to a seperate bedroom. None of the family worked or contributed a damm thing.