to be shocked by parents of some university students

[giraffesCantZumba]

My friend works in the graduation office, this time of year is really busy for her so been working weekends/long hours etc. She was venting to me about this and says she gets 3/4 parents a day phoning trying to sort out their childs graduation for them! ANd become totally outraged when told that it is confidential and they can only deal with the student. When do the apron strings get cut?!

Often its because student has totally missed the deadline for paying graduation fees and they are outraged as their poor dc had no idea.

btw MoreBeta, I am intrigued by your reference to your wife's uni holding 'parent days'. We organise sessions for parents during our open days - precisely, in part, because we recognise that parents of 16 year olds rightly want to support them in their decision-making in the way you describe (and also b/c it allows us to talk and listen direct to the prospective students without their parents cramping their style!). But we have never had any signals from parents that they would like us to arrange days exclusively for them. I'd be really interested to know how your wife's dept/institution came to the decision to organise those.

kirsty - yes technically you are right. The contract is with the student but parent will be supporting, instigating and financing the legal action.

It is unrealsitic to assume students will have the wherewithall to sue a university and am quite sure that universities know that and exploit it. Having increasingly engaged parents, who have money and some knowledge of legal rights and how to enforce them is a quite different matter and universities would do well to take account of that.

I am sure it's only a matter of time before 'no-win-no-fee' cases are brought by law firms looking to make some money.

I am glad to say that we are nearly through with it-the last few posts show that it is going to be hell in years to come! DCs who have been wrapped in cottonwool and had all their homework, revision etc organised (with massive help), being offered money bribes for good grades are suddenly going to be let loose, on their own, in a big city to have to manage washing, cooking, deadlines, drink etc. They are going to grasp freedom, fail to cope and then mummy and daddy are going to sue because the university has failed to deliver!

I do think that high fees are going to cause a problem, because in some universities and courses you wonder what exactly is being paid for and people will want value for money.

People KEEP on saying on here 'parents have to find 9 k for the fees' no they DON'T. The non Molly coddled student rakes out his loan - offered to every student by means of one simple form by the government

Silly phone 'takes out his loan''

whilst i totally agree that these students are able and should stand on their own 2 feet there have been occassions when i have telephoned places for my son as he only has a mobile phone and the cost of being kept waiting on the phone whilst they find the right person etc can be very long, which more than uses up a months minutes
example -
starting masters - can't start until paid for - can't get anyone to issue a bill, or even confirm price of course - eventually, after 1/2 a day of calls i got a result (and 1 call took over an hour !)
calling council re student rates reduction not issued correctly ended in 2 hours of phone calls and this was only speaking to 3 different people

@Morebeta. Do we have any idea what percentage of parents actually pay for their students? Isn't it only a minority of the better-off who do that, and if that's the case, is there not a danger that the pressure you (accurately I think) describe will push universities to discriminate in subtle ways against students from less well-off backgrounds whose parents aren't paying ? I mean, if I were an academic grading papers or an adminstrator having to decide which students got what support and the parents of X were ringing up to argue his case, whereas Y's shopworker parent's can't do that, the temptation will be great to be rather more lenient on X's paper, or judge X's application a little more favourably ?

Re students (backed by affluent parents) sueing over disappointing degree results: this year we had a student whose behaviour in relation to academic staff was in some respects very odd. It emerged when he was talking to one colleague that his father is a (very successful) lawyer. Everything became clear at that point: his oddities amounted to an attempt to establish a paper-trail that would allow him to appeal or to sue if he didn't get the first-class degree which his father fully expected him to achieve - and for which he was putting the son under enormous pressure.

Fortunately, he was a very able and hard-working student and did in fact get a first, which was well deserved. But that case nicely illustrates, IMO, both the reality of parental investment that some posters invoke, AND why it is not appropriate for universities to deal direct with parents. That student needed us to be a buffer between him and his father, not to facilitate the father's over-involvement in the son's academic work, which was a source of fear and anxiety to him.

I think that the point is, GoblinMarket, that the mollycoddled student is going to have the parental bank. A new thing with DS3 was that you could go to a nearby supermarket and pay money into an account (that you can top up) and the student doesn't really have to manage food shopping, they use this card and if the money gets low they phone mum who tops it up.
I ignored it.
The changes between me going and DS1 going are not as large as the changes between DS1 and DS3-and there were a lot more years between the first!!

You are right that they are not going to have to pay £9000 fees but ds1 is currently going to open days and is being told to budget a further 9- 10 thousand pounds p.a. for living costs.In the first year this will be paid to the University usually because first years are mostly in University owned accomodation.Even if you got the maximum maintenance grant this would still not be covered .

I used to take the view that parents shouldn't go to open days but now we are at that stage I am not so sure,it feels a much more pressurised decision than in my day and it is Lot of money so I think parents should be involved in a supporting role
.Ds has gone to one today on his own,he did two at the weekend,dh took him but tried to stay in the background,he didn't go to any of the subject talks but did take an interest (independently)in the accommodation (which we will have to pay for)careers guidance and finance .To be honest it worked well as because he was getting some of the admin info ds was free to concentrate on the academics and admission info.TBH it is quite difficult to get around everything on your own so the division of labour seems to have worked well

Ds has just texted from York to say that there are way to many parents at the politics talk ,he doesn't have a seat and one woman has a baby with her,she may be a student but he thinks a parent

Following campergirls line of thinking, it's worth pointing out that in many cases where a student does badly, parental pressure is a factor. It takes a lot of guts to say you chose the wrong course, or you didn't really want to go to university at all. The ones who sweep those feelings under the carpet and end up doing badly, rather than switch course, leave or take a break, are often those who fear disappointing their mums and dads. They generally aren't from conspicuously difficult family situations, but have just absorbed some fairly strong messages about what will be valued by their parents and what will not. Appearing to take a relaxed attitude about their choices, even if you are quite naturally very keen for them to do well, is the best way of ensuring they do what's right for them. In most cases their choices at this stage will shape their whole lives, so it's extremely important they feel that they have made them themselves. I can't imagine living my whole life in a career I pursued to make someone else happy, however much they loved me, however much money they gave me.

I agree that it is crucial that the student needs to feel they have made the choice. Yes parents can advise, but not pressure children to take a certain course.

I have met adults who were pressured to take a certain degree because the parents thought it would lead to a well paid career. These adults don't now work in that career area, because they don't have any interest in it. And some regret doing the degree they did.

I used to give presentations at faculty open days to prospective students and parents. It got to the point where I was presenting in 3 or 4 lecture halls simultaneously via video link, as there were in excess of 700 people per session ... 2/3 of them were parents sigh

Parents beware.

Some of these mollycoddled students turn up at my work for interviews. They are, by this stage, one year off entering a profession where they will have quite onerous responsibilites.

But they tend to tell you all about their successful parents' achievements rather than themselves, are often lazy with very poor general knowledge (good at swotting up narrow questions put to them in advance, unable to talk cogently about anything wider than that) and comically surprised and offended to be asked any hard questions. If told they've got something wrong in the written answer to the questions put in advance, they complain about the questions. When they don't get in they ring up and ask in a whiny voice why they weren't given a job.

Thing is, they aren't anywhere near the majority of the people we see, but as a minority they are increasing. We now know from bitter experience that in employment, however great their intellectual potential, they lack self-motivation and self-discipline, will not take responsibility, want hand-holding and complain constantly.

The worst one we actually took on used to bemoan his poverty (and apparently exploitative and Dickensian working conditions) despite his parents having bought him a car and a house, which gave him a good income as he rented out rooms to his friends. He also took two weeks off because he was upset after splitting up with his girlfriend so his work had to be covered at short notice by colleagues. Shortly afterwards he then whinged he hadn't been given a chance to participate in some exciting project he felt someone of his talents ought to have been a shoo-in for. He is, needless to say no longer with us.

Eldritch
That is outrageous!
Do you mind me asking what sort of profession/field this is? It's just bizarre.

Sorry, don't want to say as too identifying.

Other people I meet involved in recruitment for their organisations say a simillar thing. The number of good candidates whom we all compete for is holding steady, but the number of poorer candidates is increasing, especially drips who can't quite get their act together. It's much harder to sort the wheat from the chaff.

And we have had parents ring up to ask about interviews (which generally counts against the candidate, unless there is a good reason for the parent to do it, such as that the candidate is travelling abroad).

Perhaps it's the expansion of University attendance to people who don't really want to be there or in these kind of jobs, but are pressured by parents into doing it, some of it may be generational. I completely agree with Viola here.

(Some of it may be that I'm getting older and turning into an intolerant old fogey. But I don't think so).

I don't think we are helping our young people though by making the whole education system so prescriptive.It is becoming an excercise in stamp collecting,you have to get all
the stamps or your life will be a disaster

Not only do we demand that they get As at A level plus AS levels ,increasingly universities are saying they want A*s at GCSE level as well ,plus top employers want Duke of Edinburgh,drama ,music,volunteering ,internships.When do they get a chance to just grow up,read a book ,develop as a person.So many just seem nervous wrecks petrified that no offers at University means no decent job

Flair ,imagination and originality do not get you an A*at A level.Honestly we are breading a generation of form fillers and box tickers

Ergo lots of nerds and drips

Sorry breeding not breading

Speaking logically, of course uni students should behave as adults and deal with things themselves but what would you do, as a parent, if they didn't? I have never rung a uni for either of my DCs but can't guarantee I wouldn't if push came to shove and I am much more laid back than many mums I have seen on here.

I am often shocked on here by how parents want to control every aspect of their teenagers lives so it doesn't surprise me that this is happening and I suspect it will get worse as those children who are so cossetted and defended now get older

I agree with the growing trend to control teenagers and make choices for them. I dont think we are doing them any favours. My two are at a very good school, but I think I am about the only parent I know who lets their kids 'get on with it' when it comes to studying. I dont have much choice really as I am a LP working long hours. I am happy to support them in their choices (and pay for them to go to Uni) but have no intention of managing their lives for them.

One of my kids studies like mad and has stellar results and the other is a bright lad who could work a lot harder, but it is at least all their own work.

For your amusement , here is a recent example of my helicopter parenting in action.

Me 'Dont you have an exam this morning?'

DS 'yes'

Me 'What subject?'
DS 'Cant remember.'

Much to my amazement he still manages to pass!!

Speaking logically, of course uni students should behave as adults and deal with things themselves but what would you do, as a parent, if they didn't?

Tell them to get a job and mature a bit first, then apply if they decide for themselves that they want to go.
University isn't the 'be all and end all' -there are other routes. I am always shocked by the number of parents (many on MN) who have decided before they give birth that their DC will go to university! (in some cases which selection and which subjects ) If their DC isn't likely to get to grammar school, get a tutor etc etc.
Why not wait until the DC is about 14/15yrs and see what they have in mind to do with their lives.

my ds(17) wants to go to uni and i have no intention of getting involved in any aspect of it to be honest. i think it's kind of embarassing to have your parents dallying around you at 18.