to be shocked by parents of some university students

[giraffesCantZumba]

My friend works in the graduation office, this time of year is really busy for her so been working weekends/long hours etc. She was venting to me about this and says she gets 3/4 parents a day phoning trying to sort out their childs graduation for them! ANd become totally outraged when told that it is confidential and they can only deal with the student. When do the apron strings get cut?!

Often its because student has totally missed the deadline for paying graduation fees and they are outraged as their poor dc had no idea.

So what do you make of them, giraffes?

giraffesCantZumba You have stuck a chord here.

How do you know that giraffes can't Zumba? They may be rather good...

They probably can wait - have you read the book? Anyone can dance when they find music that they love.

ttchootnika I can see the reasoning for new school leavers going to uni with parents for open days, although I have to say I went to mine alone - well with friends. As they are perhaps leaving home and this is helping them to start their adulthood. But during university they are supposed to grow up. And then be ready for full time professional employment. In my case I did primary teaching - so imagine one week you have your Mum phoning up sorting your graduation and then the next you are in charge of 30 something childrens education and you have your Mummy phoning the head to say you need a day off as you have a cold. Once you start uni you are an adult - first year you probably need extra support but it should be getting less and less.

My Dad filled in half the SASS (is that what its called?!) because it was related to parental income and that is not any of my business, so I filled out my bits and he did his. I didn't pay any fees - and was lucky in that I just missed the year where you have to repay them. Apart from that no parental involvement, I had some issues in first year and talked it through with Dad and we agreed a plan - I would speak to someone about it at uni.

giraffe - I know, I know... but those were very different times (unfortunately). To a large extent they disappeared with grants.

I don't really know the system know, I only graduated 4yrs ago has it changed that much? (not being sarcastic I really don't know)

*now not Know. Dat uni dergree dun me good innit

I'm rather ambivalent about the whole data protection issue, it can put university staff in a very unpleasant situation. I've had to deal with a couple of cases where students have failed the year and been required to withdraw because they submitted absolutely no work all year. No mitigating circumstances, just pure laziness or disengagement, but of course they told a complete pack of lies to their parents about how nasty the academics had been, how they'd only narrowly failed one module, had been very ill during the exams, etc. The parents then subjected us to a stream of vile, defamatory abuse, threats of litigation, etc. We have no right of reply in these situations and can't even defend ourselves since that would involve disclosing confidential information. Students can give university staff permission to talk directly to their parents, but interestingly in these cases, they were very careful not to.

YANBU. I work in Univeristy admin and the amount of parents we get phoning up helicoptering about the smallest thing astounds me.

Last week I had a woman ring me to ask why her son hadn't been picked for the football team and telling me how disappointed he was and how angry she is on his behalf.

Her son is 20.

Unfortunately the cotton wool swaddlers not only fail to understand the harm they do to their children, they often have underlying psychological reasons why they persist in behaving this way with their adult children.
It is their needs being met, not those of the students. It's actually quite worrying and rather sad and disappointing. I would like to see someone do some research into the outcomes for these young people.

I wish that someone would do some research and publish it-I don't think that parents who won't let go have the least understanding of the damage they are doing, as far as they are concerned they are 'good parents' and those of us who let them risk assess for themselves are neglectful. They cite the fact that their DC is irresponsible to justify not giving any freedom and of course DCs will live down to expectations-(rather than up).

Perhaps the pendulum will swing the other way when this molly coddled generation have DCs and are fed up with their parents and PIL still trying to control.

I don't understand the student loan application as stated on here. It is all done on line, I have never seen what DS does-we just log on as parents and fill in our support bits. I think we get an email from the student loans people saying the application is ready for us to log on.

I have no idea of the work he has to do and the deadlines. To my mind, if he can't self motivate and meet them he shouldn't be there!

I don't think they should be at university in such numbers-often it seems to be parental wishes. I know that my nephew, doing English, went to a turorial where most people hadn't read the book, they thought they could 'fudge it' but that only works if everyone else is prepared! I don't understand how you can pay all that money, supposedly for a subject you love and can't be bothered to read the book !(never mind read around it) I suspect this is because the parents haven't bought them the book and made them read it! It must be very frustrating for the students who are working and motivated to have to put up with it.
I know that my DS has to produce work sometimes as a group and the first worry is -who is going to be in the group and whether they will pull their weight.

I find that very weird cumbria! I have never thought to phone about anything. Even when DS1 got glandular fever I just got him to go to the doctor-he arranged coming home,delaying exams etc.

Wow, DS1 won't even allow me to walk him into/out of school anymore.

Why would you do that to your kids? If they can't sort this stuff out themselves then they have no business at University.

My parent's income was too high for me to get any money and they didn't offer any financial help, I had jobs and lived in crap flats and mostly drank my meals, best days of my life.

How embarrassing for these students.

My observation from nursery school on is that sharp elbowed parents do usually gain advantages for their kids by continual pushing, as they keep on and on until schools give in. Sports teams, prefects, prizes, plum classes, special needs - seen it all. Squeaky wheels get oiled.

Thus they see the behaviour as successful, so why not carry on.

The tripling of University fees is a perfect excuse.

MoreBeta - I think you make a good point about future court cases as parents sue universities that have provided poor quality teaching.

IME, as a non-fee paying undergraduate we complained little about the quality of teaching; as a fee-paying graduate student (MBA) we were, as a promotion, vociferous. Indeed, there was a rigorous system for taking student feedback on teaching quality and feeding it back into the teaching staff's appraisal/promotion/contract renewal system.

Universities that don't buck up are going to be in for a nasty shock, and student-staff relationships change massively when students are paying heavily for their courses. The whole thing is going to become a lot less forgiving.

Crazyspaniel I feel your pain. I remember the student who was a complete liar , his Daddy was a soliciter, it went to the top and the little add expletive of choice got his way. It happened a few years ago but I feel like having a lie down at the thought of it.

I personally admire students that can sort out their own problems. I also find the more distressing the problem, such as a death in the family or a major illness the less likely the student is to make a fuss. There is a tiny minority of self righteous lazy students who make life hell for university staff.

I wish my parents (or just anyone really) had fought my corner when the university decided that a housemates sudden death and the following police investigation weren't extenuating circumstances.I wish my parents (or just anyone really) had fought my corner when the university decided that a housemates sudden death and the following police investigation weren't extenuating circumstances.

Bonsoir - yes that was exactly my experience as an undergrad and self funded MBA student too.

I am not surprised that universities do not especially want well informed and demanding parents taking an interest in the quality of the teaching being delivered. Much easier to have a bunch of naieve inexperienced young adults to deal with who will take whatever they are given. Funny how universities have quite draconioan statutes and sanctions to keep those naieve young adults in line as well. Interesting balance of power that and also how convenient that confidentiality and Data Protection law allows them to keep parents in the dark as well.

Having taught in various universities I know full well what goes on behind the scenes and that teaching quality is extremely variable and not seen as a priority issue by most academics. Some universities and some lecturers will get away with what they can and there needs to be far more observation of what they deliver in return for the higher fees they now charge.

Incidentally, my DW teaches in a university and she says the university does hold 'parent days' as part of its marketing campaign to encourage take up of its courses so it seems to me at least in one university that parents are being courted quite actively as an important part of the 'buying' process.

Not surprisingly, parents will feel thay should have some ongoing engagement throughout the course. Indeed, I believe I am right that in US universities where parents are also often financiang their children it is quite common and well accepted that there will be a lot of parental engagement.

It's just occurred to me that this malaise of parental involvement is possibly the fault of FE colleges.

When I did my BTEC Diploma, back in the 80s, the only involvement my parents had was attending the initial signing up for the course after I'd done my 'O' Levels. I think they did bring my younger brother to an open evening I was helping with, and they paid for my bus pass up front (but got reimbursed at the end of each term) but that was it. End of year reports were addressed to me, not them. If there were problems on the course it was dealt with between staff and student, no parental involvement, and this was predominantly kids aged 16 - 18. However, now at FE colleges it seems to be all about involving the parents, and the significant difference is that the colleges seem to encourage it, or at least that seems to be the case at the college near us. No wonder there are parents who can't back off once their kids move on to university.

If either of my kids go to college I'll not be impressed if I'm expected to be involved more than my kids request, so I'd probably be classed as a rubbish parent.

I have a similar issue with my DD's school, which is a French private sous-contrat school. French schools are either state or private sous-contrat and in both cases teachers are employed and paid by the French Ministry for Education and deliver the French NC. As a consequence, French parents are used to having no say whatsoever over what goes on in the classroom.

My DD's school is different to the vast majority of "private" schools, which are 99% religious schools, as the parents pay a significant fee for a modified NC which means that 25% of classroom time (24 hours per week) is given over to the teaching of English, in streams. Parents quite rightly feel entitled to have an opinion as to what goes on in English classes as it is a pure customer-provider relationship (there is, shockingly, no governance whatsoever of the English curriculum delivered at DD's school). The school does not know how to handle the parental demands at all and tries to fob us all off, though with clearly decreasing success!

To be absolutley frank, I think a lot of universities are ripping off students who sign up for their courses. Rubbish courses, delivered by poorly qualified lecturers, in appalling facilities. It is all about bums on seats and getting the revenue in. It is not about delivering something of benefit to the students.

As a parent, I think it is my duty to help my children make good choices and protect them against exploitation by people and institutions that have power over them and who will be taking a lot of money off me and them.

I wil not be going to university interviews with my children but I expect to be engaged in advising them choose the universities they apply for and to help them if that university fails to deliver.

"As a parent, I think it is my duty to help my children make good choices and protect them against exploitation by people and institutions that have power over them and who will be taking a lot of money off me and them."

I couldn't agree more.

@Bonsoir, Morebeta. Interesting points. I have a question: as I've understood it, the university will have a contract only with the student, as from the university's point of view, the student is paying. Then the student may be obtaining the money to pay the university by asking their parents or by getting a loan - have I understood correctly that the university doesn't know which? In which case (and here's my question) how can a parent sue the university if there is no contract between the university and the parents? For example, if I lend my brother money so he can buy a used car, and the used car turns out to be a lemon, I assume only my brother can sue the used car salesman, the fact that I lent him the money is neither here nor there legally. Isn't it the same situation ? Formally, legally, it's the student that's paying, and the fact that the parents choose to gift him the money to do so is a private arrangement between the student and parent ?

Obviously, if they wanted, the parent could support a sueing student, but that's not quite the same thing.

Yes that's right kirsty. It's why the parents whose over-developed sense of entitlement deludes them into thinking they have customer rights in relation to the universities their children attend are wrong.

MoreBeta and Bonsoir are quite right that it's desirable for parents to enable their children to make informed decisions and act in the world with appropriate assertiveness. But that is a different thing from parents feeling themselves to be customers of a body with which they have no direct connection. Universities don't resist that parental identification as a customer because they have something to hide, but simply because it's groundless. And inane.