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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be shocked by parents of some university students

247 replies

giraffesCantZumba · 05/07/2011 12:26

My friend works in the graduation office, this time of year is really busy for her so been working weekends/long hours etc. She was venting to me about this and says she gets 3/4 parents a day phoning trying to sort out their childs graduation for them! ANd become totally outraged when told that it is confidential and they can only deal with the student. When do the apron strings get cut?!

Often its because student has totally missed the deadline for paying graduation fees and they are outraged as their poor dc had no idea.

OP posts:
ggirl · 05/07/2011 15:19

yanbu
dd is off to uni this sept
she has arranged all of it herself besides me driving her and a few mates up north to an open day then leaving them to it
as for arranging graduation in 3-4 yrs time -ridiculous
but then I am not forking out for her fees etc, can't afford it

Pagwatch · 05/07/2011 15:25

Grin no karma you wouldn't.

You wouldn't tell your child that they cannot chose engineering as they wish but must instead do medicine. And that they must apply to the unis you chose?
Offering your opinion is not the same as asserting your views over every stage of the process.

And tbh if my son got to the point where he needed that much steering I would question whether they should be going to uni at all.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 05/07/2011 15:29

There was a great radio prog I heard a few months ago where a recruitment consultant told how she would get parents ringing to apply for jobs for adult children rather than the young people themselves. To make matters worse, when she asked one parent if her son could come for an interview the next day at 09:30 the reply was 'he doesn't get up until 10:00' Shock

YANBU OP. Some people are their own worst enemy.

mumblejumble · 05/07/2011 15:37

My son of 22 started university at 18, and I made him take the train himself to all open days. I firmly told him my days of driving him were over and he has to behave as an adult. He had to find his own accommodation, sort out his own course paperwork. He can now function completely independently as an adult, and has even worked in Dubai.
I made my own decisions at 16 and could easily travel alone around the country and did so with gusto.
I think the problem starts in childhood, not allowing children out alone etc.
Teenagers expect to be ferried about and don't know how to survive. I suppose it would extend into adulthood if parents are uncertain about their offspring's ability to even get about by public transport

lesley33 · 05/07/2011 15:46

I agree the problem begins earlier. It would actually be totally unreasonable to over protect a child till 16 or 17 and then expect them to be able to organise everything alone.

Lilymaid · 05/07/2011 15:48

Oh dear ... mollycoddling parent here. I paid all the graduation costs for DS - he e-mailed me the forms and I transferred the money to pay for the gown hire, not very nice buffet food etc.
But I haven't accompanied DS to job interviews (though wouldn't have minded accompanying him to the one in Barcelona).

Pagwatch · 05/07/2011 15:52

Yy mumble.

Ds1 has had gradual cautious increases in his independence and responsibility since he was 10.

I fucked many many things up when raising my dcs. But life skills/independence/responsibility are all things that I will again try and instill in dd who is nearly 9

fedupofnamechanging · 05/07/2011 15:57

Pagwatch, you are right in that I wouldn't tell him that he must do engineering rather than medicine. Medicine is a good choice Wink. I am happy for him to choose but with education being so expensive now, I will want to guide him in making sensible choices. A lot of what I will do, is to make him feel supported, so he doesn't feel as alone as I did. I think the days of being able to take chances at university are over, sadly.

Although the theory is that students will use loans to finance study, the reality is a lot of parents will try to cushion their DC from getting into too much debt, so will be contributing financially. They will be viewing themselves as the 'customer' so Uni's will have to prepare for that. The parents will be filling the gap left by the state, so will expect 'customer services'.

I will make my DC talk to their universities directly though if need be. I'm not a complete control freak, honestly.

fedupofnamechanging · 05/07/2011 15:57

Pagwatch, you are right in that I wouldn't tell him that he must do engineering rather than medicine. Medicine is a good choice Wink. I am happy for him to choose but with education being so expensive now, I will want to guide him in making sensible choices. A lot of what I will do, is to make him feel supported, so he doesn't feel as alone as I did. I think the days of being able to take chances at university are over, sadly.

Although the theory is that students will use loans to finance study, the reality is a lot of parents will try to cushion their DC from getting into too much debt, so will be contributing financially. They will be viewing themselves as the 'customer' so Uni's will have to prepare for that. The parents will be filling the gap left by the state, so will expect 'customer services'.

I will make my DC talk to their universities directly though if need be. I'm not a complete control freak, honestly.

fedupofnamechanging · 05/07/2011 15:57

I have no idea why I posted that twice

thursday · 05/07/2011 16:07

i think parents ringing up and pestering unis, and applying for jobs, attending interviews etc is OTT and unhelpful and more that a smidge pathetic all round. i really don't see taking a general interest in your child leaving home for the first time as unusual though. i didn't go to uni straight from school, but when i went to open days a few years ago (with my husband!) i didnt see anyone bar mature students without their parents. it's not just a case of parents looming over kids imposing things on them, i would have valued my parents opinions on courses and cities i was considering. i hope mine at 16/17 are mature enough to know they dont know everything and to seek our advice/opinions.

lesley33 · 05/07/2011 16:12

Yes I got advice from my parents on university at 16/17. That is reasonable. But treating university students as children instead of adults, is not reasonable.

thursday · 05/07/2011 16:16

yes, i agree. if you can't learn to be a bit independent whilst living hundreds of miles away for 3/4 years then you're a bit doomed really.

campergirls · 05/07/2011 16:19

Karma, I work in a university, and I honestly don't see how we can treat parents rather than students as our customers. Not without infringing on the rights and confidentiality of the students, anyway. Some of our students have very good reasons to want to keep their parents far far away from their lives, and respecting that is a key part of our relationship with them.

So - how could we treat parents as customers? Can you explain what you have in mind, because I honestly don't get it.

lesley33 · 05/07/2011 16:21

I agree. Leaving home to go to University is actually a pretty easy way to leave home. There is support available for students at universities - far more than for an 18 year old working and leaving home. And really bar mental health problems or SN issues, students shouldn't need their parents to intervene on their behalf.

ViolaTricolor · 05/07/2011 16:24

Exactly what I was wondering, campergirls (I also work in a university). Even if it seemed morally justified (though I don't think it is), there's no way it could work. Especially since the financial basis of the claim to 'customer' status would mean parents with the funds to subsidise had different status to those who don't.

Tchootnika · 05/07/2011 16:24

Lots of students now stay at parental home for uni (costs, etc.).
So apron strings aren't so straightforwardly severable as they were when places were better funded...

GoblinMarket · 05/07/2011 16:30

Agree entirely pagwatch and others

fedupofnamechanging · 05/07/2011 16:42

I guess that unless a student says not to discuss issues with their parents, where is the harm in talking to the mum or dad of an 18 year old. I do understand that data protection laws may prohibit this.

I do think it is better for all concerned if students speak to their universities themselves and I would not call a university on behalf of my son (I would make him call himself though), but where the parent is spending a lot of money, they will naturally feel entitled to information. The problem is that the government doesn't treat people as independent adults when they want to assess parental finances for university purposes, so the parent feels they have a right to information.

Although the university is merely replacing one source of finance with another, the 'new'source of finance are people with a stake in an individuals life, so will rightly or wrongly want to discuss that with the university directly. Universities have to prepare themselves for the change.

I do agree that some parents go overboard. I will accompany my child to open days but won't expect to be in the interview with him, I promise.

ViolaTricolor · 05/07/2011 16:56

Can you imagine how much trouble it could cause if students had to make this kind of declaration about whether or not their parents were allowed to have a say? Many, many undergraduates who have perfectly OK relationships with their parents would not want this and it could cause all kinds of hurt and complication. Isn't it better to work on the basis that if your DC want you to know something, they'll tell you, and if you want to know something, you can ask them?

Again, universities are not replacing anything with parental subsidy. If you give your DC that money, great, but the deal is between you and them, not you and the place they spend it. I agree though that the assessment of parents' finances is a long standing and unjustifiable anomaly. To assume that all parents are automatically supportive of their DC's studies is not really reasonable.

campergirls · 05/07/2011 16:57

Thanks karma. But you're right, data protection laws do prohibit it, yes, so we're no further forward really. You are still, I think, saying that because parents feel themselves to be consumers they are entitled to be treated as such - but I still don't get how that would work in practice. Parents' feelings about being assessed financially in relation to their children's education are a matter for them to take up with the govt. They have no bearing whatsoever on the student's relationship with their university. I understand why a parent might feel that they should. But they don't!

To answer your question 'where's the harm?' I'd say two things. First, where's the benefit? Honestly, how could talking about any aspect of an adult's life and work TO THEIR PARENTS be better than talking to that adult directly? (I would make exceptions for medical professionals discussing cases of serious illness, where the sick person might not be capable of taking part in the conversation themselves).

Secondly, I don't think such conversations would necessarily be harmless. Assuming we are talking about students - people who have actually become undergraduates - then the harm is in perpetuating the infantilisation of that 18 year old. In endorsing their parents' view that the child should be treated as dependent and they should have some control over their life. In allowing the child to continue to think that they don't have to take responsibility for themselves. These things are harmful to a young adult's growth towards autonomy, IMO - a process which, as university lecturers, most of us see ourselves as trying to enable. Not to delay it by treating our students as if they are still schoolkids who can legitimately be reported on to their parents.

This is of course setting aside the obvious point that the power dynamics of many dysfunctional and abusive families would make it very difficult, even impossible, for the most vulnerable students to say that the uni should not communicate with their parents. I appreciate that this might be hard for a concerned, supportive parent to hear, but unfortunately there are many students for whom university is a refuge from a very difficult homelife. And for me, protecting that is a higher priority than reporting to parents on their adult student child's progress.

campergirls · 05/07/2011 16:58

yes ViolaTricolour, agree absolutely that the anomaly of treating students as financial dependents is a key part of the problem. It makes no sense in the new regime anyway.

Oh look an aspect of govt HE policy that doesn't make sense! amazing.

ViolaTricolor · 05/07/2011 17:01

No, none of it makes sense .

campergirls · 05/07/2011 17:04

I got a Christmas card from one of my students last week, I really wasn't sure what to make of that.

fedupofnamechanging · 05/07/2011 17:13

From my own experience, I went from being a child at home to an 'adult' at university overnight. I found it stressful and difficult to be away from everyone I loved and completely responsible for myself. Now I did manage my own finances, found somewhere to live, got a job etc, but I was honestly miserable for quite a long time. I'd have welcomed more parental involvement and a bit of cushioning to ease me in to adult life. It was a bit all or nothing and I wasn't an adult at 18 as much as I would have claimed to be.

The other thing I was thinking of was a thread on here where the OP said her brother had been completely financially supported by his parents and had just failed his degree. Obviously, the parents weren't expecting that. If parents did have access to how things were going, then maybe someone could have stepped in sooner before a lot of time and money was wasted. Sometimes you can't rely on a teenager to be honest about how they are coping.

I do accept though that giving parents access to this info does also bring with it a lot of problems, especially as not all family backgrounds are good. I'm not really advocating complete access for parents, just saying that when my child goes to university I will be helping him to choose his course and fill out his forms/find accommodation as I wish my parents had been able to do for me. I think they thought I was far more mature than I actually was.

I will also be gently discussing not nagging, honest guvhis grades, so I don't get any nasty surprises having sold an organ to pay his fees!