aibu to want this teacher to apologise to my son.

[wfrances]

ds age 12 takes a packed lunch to school,during 2nd lesson he notices drink has leaked in his bag {all of it}his lunch is ruined,and now has no drink.
he tells his teacher who says "i dont care, its not my problem, sit down."
im fuming, he didnt eat all day,no drink and what a wicked way to respond to a child.
phoned head of year straight away ,who totally agreed with my reaction.
but i think she should apologise to him-what do you think?

cricketballs, your ignorance would be comical if such attitudes didn't make life hell for people with SN. Defensive? No, just annoyed by the arrogantly, proudly stupid. My brother is, I assure you, vastly more intelligent than you, because he only holds forth (endlessly, at length, and very dully) on matters about which he has some actual knowledge. He's highly, highly intelligent and a skilled programmer. He also panics if he has to cross London by Tube and there are line cancellations, has no idea about social interactions unless spoken and clear, and is completely literal. As a child he would wake up at 4 am and want to play- he just didn't sleep like a normal child; to him it was time to get up then and he would sit, sighing heavily, until the allowed hour to rise of 6 am. Every sodding day - we shared a room and he'd try to wake me up to play. He was unspeakably badly bullied at school, sometimes by teachers, and very much a lost soul.

To pretend it's just imaginary, or for "street cred" fgs (have you ever actually had dealings with anyone on the autistic spectrum? His body language alone would indicate that he's the least cool person you ever met) is stupidity writ large, and high, and in neon. How about you shut up, run away, and join the threads pouring approbrium on Jordan or Kerry Katona if you must spend your online time feeling vaguely superior? Much more your intellectual metier, and considerably less potential to cause actual harm.

That is precisely why there needs to be a more holistic approach to children with "hidden" disabilities.

Just because its "hidden" doesnt make it not there at all. Just because a child is not struggling academically doesnt mean they dont need a statement of special educational needs.

incidentally, a great friend of mine has a son a year older than mine - he is profoundly "disabled" - severe dyspraxia, and autism.
He is studying a degree in genetics at York uni, one of the top unis in the country for his field of expertise - he had a full statement at school, he has full support in uni aswell - he has a mentor, a scribe, equipment etc - its nice to know that not all teachers and lecturers think like cricket and think that if they are ok academically then no statement is required.

It amazes and saddens me that a teacher, who says she has a son with SN, is asking me to explain, that if my son is doing a degree, why he needed a statement, when i have clearly explained he has a diagnosis of aspegers syndrome, dyspraxia and dyslexia (which incidentallly was missed until he was 16) I had to pay for private tuition in some subjects that he really struggled with. The only thing he left school with was good grades, and if he had not then the whole school experience for him would not have been remotely worth the anguish it caused. He knew that to work in his chosen field he would need GCSEs, then A Levels, then a degree. Thats the only reason we all stuck it out, otherwise i would have home ed'ed. I looked tirelessly at other options, from steiner school to boarding school. (without a statement he had no options regarding specialist schools who deal precisely with children with AS)

He has aspergers. His obsession (as many kids with AS get obsessed by a particular topic) is what he is doing his degree in. It is what he works in part time and he was self taught at 12, he is a computer programmer and his degree course is in computing, he lives at home while doing this because he would not cope at the moment looking after himself, though he is taking baby steps in this dept - he is away at the moment working, for 3 days in Scotland, and i encourage him in making these little forays into independence - i worry like mad due to his vulnerability but i also understand that i will not be around for ever and i want him to achieve independence. He is vulnerable - he looks vulnerable and as such has been mugged and assaulted while going about his daily business.

I am not in competition with anyone, (to the poster who accused me of this) but children with "hidden" disabilities face a double whammy in schools.

Vicar thats the thing, people CAN'T see aspergers therefore don't class it as a disability.

I know DS1 struggles in many areas and yet in others he excels. He can, on a 1-2-1, hold an amazingly grown up conversation on any topic he has in his mind at the time that is of great interest to him. Today however he has gone to school fretting as they are going on a day trip to a place where they will either be put in Commando, SAS or Intelligence Corps to carry out physical tasks as a team. He is totally and utterly distraught that he is not "Going to be as good as others because they all get in my face" .

You know, if I had a pound for every "the teacher/Social Worker/Other Person (with lots of experience of kids) just doesn't understand my child's (unstatemented cocktail of syndromes ) issues and is thus unreasonable/rude/a bitch/ignorant and should be admonished/fired/shot" comment on MN.....

That - plus calling them names when they ask the tougher questions - is why so many people are so sceptical.

Just sayin....

Okay, before I even refresh (possibly enraging me more) I am going to apologise. I should not have lost my temper so badly. But the thing is, what to other people are simply casual musings is my childhood, and other people's daily lives. My mother was told my brother's problems were because she was a single mother, and he was a boy, and he'd be fine when she remarried. Much, much later she read his notes and saw that the first time he saw an Ed. Psych he was diagnosed as AS. She was never told this. He was formally diagnosed with AS, dyslexia and dyspraxia in his 20s. I can't go into it too much - not my story to tell - but suffice if to say the only reason he can't sue the local authority is that he has done so well since leaving school (without skills or qualifications or the ability to see others as anything but predatory) that he couldn't prove the undoubted and shocking misconduct and incompetence caused actual and lasting harm. And the trite little comments about being the outcast being somehow cool, and mothers with sharp elbows... you have no sodding idea. I was slapped in the face and taunted by kids in his year about my brother being "mad". (And he was never disruptive at all, either, not until he blew up in his mid-teens - as a child he was just really odd.)

It's not fair, and not correct, to assume a SN can't be bright, or even gifted. And it's not the case that a refusal to statement means a refusal to acknowledge there are SN, either. And I really can't tell you how much it upsets me to see teachers say this shit, because it means kids like my brother are being terribly let down, 20 -30 years later.

There's a reason I avoid SN AIBU threads. I just didn't know this would be one until too late.

Surely Sen is an acronym for Special Educational need. I.E any need that falls outside the norm. High IQ or lower IQ.

To narrow the definition to those falling behind is ridiculous, it is any accommodation that needs to be made in order for a child to access the curriculum.

TLES, I have read about your ds before, I am so glad you finally have a diagnosis. It sounds to me as if he is experiencing these:

www.sengifted.org/articles_social/Lind_OverexcitabilityAndTheGifted.shtml

Omigawd, I don't have a kid with special needs. I have a sibling with special needs and saw how badly he was let down when we were growing up. It impacts everyone - obviously the child in question, and the parents, and then the wider family. My mother was a skint single parent with sod all support, and she was made to feel responsible for his problems and a middle-class neurotic mother for asking questions. She's been totally vindicated, but rather late in the day for all concerned.

I really, really had hoped things had improved since I was that age, in terms of provision and attitude, but the comments on here are shockingly probative to the contrary. Yes, it upsets me. You are lucky you can't understand why.

Vicarinatutu. I sympathise.

My ds has a cocktail of diagnosis's, Aspergers, OCD, ADHD(although this one is now disputed). He is also accelerated four years at school. I gave up on state sector because they held him back and refused any help. He is now far happier and thriving in independent sector on a scholarship with lots of "tweaks" that cost nothing financially but make all the difference to him.

My son is 7 he has AS, He doesn't have a statement. He can converse about any topic HE is interested in currently space time continuem and infinity he doesn't care or notice if you are not interested. Normal conversation is alien to him, and a target on his IEP is to hold a conversation for one min as in school he speaks only when asked a direct question. if the teacher is telling the dc to do something unless his teacher says his name he won't even realise she is including him. At home we model conversation and situations with him but he is unable to transfer these skills to new situations. NT children transfer these skills through instinct our children don't have this natural instinct.

He is anxious about many things and becomes distressed easily and often. School is a scary place for him, something that happens in school impacts on our home life sometimes many weeks after it has occurred, nightmares, bedwetting or simply refusing to go to school (I carry him pleading not to take him). An example of this could be the fire alarm (he is noise sensitive so this actually hurts him)plus he will then be convinced that school WILL burn down with him in it. On the playground a truck bringing equipment, the children were to told "move out of the way" this instruction to ds may as well been in swahilli, move were? he ran in front in total panic and was nearly knocked over.

The difference between him and his peers is becoming more pronounced and the thought of him in ms high school fills me with fear especially after reading some of the attitudes of teachers on here. He is vunerable and prone to anxiety and low self esteem. One of the key points by the Ed pysch was his inabillity to ask for help, therefore if he spoke up to ask for help and the teacher responded in the way of the OP he would believe the teacher HATED him and he would be to scared to EVER ask again.

to salus1 i hope this helps calm your fears over secondary school, regardless of the overwhelming yabu on here my ds school took the opposite view .
hoy went straight to head of school straight away as he felt ds teacher had seriously overstepped the mark.
today she was told that her behaviour and attitude was totally unacceptable,
she was not asked to apologise but she found my ds this morning and she did,she said all the things i hoped she would say-and told him she hoped he wouldnt be afraid to approach her in the future.
this afternoons conv, with his hoy was very reassuring and i feel so much happier knowing that my ds school is of the same mindset as me ,i have no idea what sort of schools the teachers teach in who have commented on here -thank god

Glad she apologised, she was obviously having bad day but has realised that this was not your sons fault.

Very glad to hear good sense won the day at the school, OP. Teacher's comment was plain old-fashioned unkind and grumpy. But sounds like she realised.

perfectstorm me too me too . God, I hoped teachers' attitudes had changed.

Ah wfrances, i'm so pleased, and you should be proud of yourself for sticking by your guns!

Positive communication from teachers make such a difference to our DC, and hopefully your DS will have a tiny bit more confidence today.

You deserve a

Your school sound supportive, and the air was cleared between ds and teacher :)

What a bitch.Even if your son did'nt have extra needs at school it would be really uncalled for and unprofessional but added to the fact that he has extra needs.Yes she should appologise to your son.
x

Just seen your last post glad she appologised.x

perfectstorm; I was just about to reply that you should have read my previous posts that explains I have a DS who is on the AS spectrum and that I said very clearly that some children are disruptive in a lesson to earn street cred not that all disruptive children do this when I read your apology for losing your temper.

In terms of the statementing; I have asked (I thought in a polite manner) why a statement was so much needed if there was no academic issue (I would class being able to undertake a degree as having no academic issue) especially when funds are so low (remember the teacher bashing from last week ) and there are many SN children whose needs are so extreme that the available funds have to be forwarded to them first; but when these questions were asked, instead of a rational answer being placed insults were thrown

To be fair their were insults flying all over the place. Op as I said before, glad common sense prevailed and hope thy your son receives the support he needs

Well done WFrances. I am sorry you have had such unpleasant replies from some of the people on here.

"she was not asked to apologise but she found my ds this morning and she did,she said all the things i hoped she would say-and told him she hoped he wouldnt be afraid to approach her in the future."

So pleased for you WFrances.

You must be relieved.

im glad for you WFrances - my son had two experiences in his secondary years where the teacher should have apologised - one did, was gracious enough to say he was wrong and apologised to DS and to me, he phoned my house to speak with me. I was really touched that he did that, and he was big enough to admit when he was wrong.

the other, on the other hand, told me i was, and i quote, a "little woman" and that i was "just trying to get him into trouble" after he assaulted DS in the very last week of his school life. that teacher was a PE teacher, and a bully. DS being dyspraxic could not play sport well at all, could not catch or throw a ball, had endured the ridicule of his peers for the whole of his school life. He told him that none of his conditions existed and told him to "go and tell your mother" because he would "tell her the same". He also told him that his asthma (which is severe and has hospitalised him several times) was just "an excuse" this was witnessed by several other children.

teachers are people. and some people are ignorant and some just plain wicked. I wish i had been in the job i am in now back then, because i know much more now, and i would have had him for an assault - he laid hands on my son that day while shouting in his face, while berating him and his disabilities and when he cowered he laughed at him. DS actually thought he was going to hit him. He didnt go back to school after that. I took him in for his last couple of exams and picked him up straight after.
these teachers exist. still.

Academic ability means nothing if the pupil cannot cope in a classroom environment. If they cannot ask for help. If they cannot retain information relating to what work they need to do and when. If they cannot interact with other pupils. If they cannot concentrate. If they can process the written word with no problems, but occasionally lose understanding of ANY verbal words spoken to them.
If the pupil is lucky, like I was, they have a relative who is a teacher and who can therefore guide them. If they are not lucky, their academic ability becomes hindered to the point where the ability to progress and learn new information becomes impossible.

absolutely agree with bullet

the child should be treated as a "whole", and anything that impedes on their ability to learn surely affects their education, making it a special educational need.

this was the hurdle we never managed to overcome, because of the resistance to that idea in school.
not every child with a dx would have need of a statement -and if the school my son attended had not put up such resistance to suggestions made by his therapists i would have been happy to know that with or without that piece of paper his needs would be met - but without anyone legally enforcing what was required his needs were not met.

and this is something i bitterly regret not pursuing.

Vicar, it's so heartening to hear your story. My ds had an awful year this past year (5th grade in USA...he's 10). Including a bully of a teacher who called my ds the "village idiot" among other things in front of the whole class. When ds returned from a 6 week absence because of a migraine which was only ended by an awful cocktail of very very strong drugs, neurologist said that under no circumstances was ds to have any screen time at all (for risk of it triggering another migraine) and this awful teacher ridiculed ds in front of the whole class saying he was making the whole thing up. Teacher then made the mistake of trying to ridicule ds in front of me in front of the whole class. I (who do not have ds' inability to stand up for myself) proceeded to scream at the teacher in front of the whole class who sat there in a stunned silence while I told the teacher that he was far too old to be taking out his problems on a 10 year old. I then marched into the principal's office and said, "take my son out of that man's classroom immediately or I will be back tomorrow with a lawyer (this is america after all) who will take care of it for you." In the end, I have decided to send ds to a progressive, but academic private school (got a ton of financial aid) next year as, although I am a big believer in public (state) schools, I just can't do another year of battle and watch my poor son suffer at the hands of ignorant teachers and administrators. I met a family this weekend who have a similar ds and they switched him to a charter school for middle school and the mom said it was the best thing they ever did. She said that they had the first positive parent teacher conference they had ever had in all his years of schooling.
By the way, for those of you with children like vicar's and wfrances' and mine....I have found a few things that work well. My ds is useless at team sports, but has turned out to be quite good at the following: swimming, surfing (we are in los angeles) and ballet. He also seems to have a hidden talent for acting (discovered by chance after being given a small part in an after school performance, that he turned into a fabulous memorable role. I also got my ds typing (bbc has good website for kids to learn to touchtype) instead of handwriting which was torture for him.
I don't know why, but I get solace in knowing that I am not the only one suffering on behalf of my poor misunderstood child. And it's wonderful to hear the stories of kids like ours going off to uni and becoming productive members of society!

Your right sofiaames it is heartwarming to hear of successful outcomes, but it concerns me to think of all the not so good endings were children/teenagers/adults end up recluses because of bad experiances in school. I recommend the "Temple Grandin" film to all the teachers on here who clearly have no understanding, this shows what a mothers determination, the support of a teacher and the great autistic mind can achieve. A heartwarming TRUE story.