To bad mouth DD's biological father to her...

[DarlingDuck]

DD's biological father left us (returned to his home country) when she was 6 months old after being a complete cunt for 2 months. I spent the whole of my pregnancy alone as he went back to his country to try and earn some money when I was 2 month pregnant - and came back at 9 months with no money having spent it all. I was very young and have since learnt my lesson. he on the other hand didn't contact us for a year after leaving then went to prison for drug smuggling for 3 years. Once he was out he went on to have a child with another woman who he also left. He has had NO contact with DD despite me emailing him.

My DH wants to adopt DD (we have 2 more Ds's) but DD's biological father said no.... This was over a year ago and he STILL has made no attemot to contact her or me despite me encouraging it.

She has started asking hy he has never wanted to know her and I am getting sick of lying for him "oh he is too far away" and "he wasn;t ready to be a Dad" etc... please help!!!!!

I think because he was never charged as they didn't have enough evidence

Cocoflower
Not every case of a mother denying her children access to their father is because of violence.

I can understand when violence is involved.

But in lots of cases its because the mother cannot seperate her relationship with the father [and its breakdown] from the relationship between the children and their father.

My EX behaved badly towards me...our relationship broke down, it was a difficult time in my life, but my DCs need their dad and he needs them, i wouldnt dream of getting in the way of that. It would have been easy to bad mouth him and 'turn them against him' but theres just no way on earth that id put my kids through that, being a child of divorced parents i know how important that continued contact and positive attitude [or at least not negative] about the other parent from the PWC is.

I don't disagree that the system isn't perfect - and of course there are cases where unsupervised contact can be justifyably withheld

But, a child can still draw their own conclusions based on the facts, even in cases of violence (even moreso) - badmouthing and slagging off in order to influence and bully the child rather than giving the child the option of making up their own mind based on the simple facts doesn't give them greater protection

Why tell a child "your bioDads a shithead and i wont let you have anything to do with him " when you can say "your bioDad made some poor choices and hit/punched/hurt DP, which is why i can't agree to you seeing him at the moment" ?

So you would have a a child exposed to their absuser so they can "make up their own mind"?

In what other cirumstances would this possibly be allowed and encouraged?

Cocoflower - I agree entirely

i was in a similar position to your daughter growing up, although my dad would put in an appearance on birthdays/ xmases with 20 pounds and a card, spend about 5 mins talking to me and then loose interest in me and sit and talk to my mum (while she encouraged him to talk to me)
My mum never bad mouthed him to me (and i guarantee that was bloody hard for her as he never paid anything towards my upbringing!) and i really respect her for that, especially now as i'm a mum.
If i was you, I would just answer her questions as best you can, without any kind of slating... Just saying he is abroad, that you cant contact him, etc... She will soon realise and understand that you are there for her, and that he is not. And as she grows up, she will learn that her stepdad has been there for her out of choice, while her own dad who has parental responsibilty has bailed on her. I do know this will be hard for her to learn, and hard for you to see... But the flip side is that if you bad mouth him, and he comes back on the scene, he could make out like you have lied about things, and made the situation worse, which could make your relationship with your daughter difficult in the long run.
Sorry if thats all a bit jumbled, just wanted to get it all out. My basic point is, as your daughter grows up, she will have greater respect for you that you didn't slate her dad, even when it would've been so easy to do.

Oops x-post!

No, I'm not advocating contact I'n those cases, rather restraint on the part of the resident parent when talking/explaining to the child.

Thank you. NADM

It is just a tight-rope to walk though- getting the balance of truth versus not distressing the child/ren.

My Dad is a wonderful person
you just don't want to be related to him
hence why my half sister lives 3000 miles away from him in one direction and I live 3000 miles the other and his girlfriend lives half a mile from him.

My Mum bit her tongue for 12 years - till I was old enough to realise that he's a spoilt 7 year old and always will be.
On which basis we now get on just fine for a couple of days a year
and I got two wedding receptions - one with Mum and one with Dad
cool huh!

Do you think I should email him and ask him why, so I have some answers for DD and so maybe he can take a look at his own benhaviour?

DDuck - do you think it would make a difference?

If you think he'll reply to you, why not encourage your DD to email him directly? Just letting him know what's going on in her life to start with, and if they do develop an email relationship, she may ask some of those questions of him spontaneously herself.
If he's as selfcentred as he sounds, you'll need to be ready to pick up the pieces if he blows it, but it is important that DC learn some of those hard life-lessons for themselves, and she will form her own opinion of him if he does.

Please don't. My eldest DCs father could gave given yours a run for his money and then.some, but 18yrs on, I am proud to say I've never once bad mouthed him to DC, made sure nobody else has, even helped her try to track him down a couple of years ago when she thought she wanted to meet him.
Hold your head high and be the better person. Hopefully she'll never have to find out what a tool he is!

Can I add a comment as a daughter who was in a similar position as a child? My parents split up when I was 12 and Mum constantly criticised Dad. He was nowhere near as bad as the father in this thread btw! This bad mouthing really upset me and I've never really forgiven Mum for it. The criticism only stopped when Dad died.

This may sound harsh, but I think you should write off the biological dad and move on with your lives.

If he ever initiates contact then of course you should engage with him, but if he has never had anything to do with his daughter in SIX YEARS then why should anything change?

I don't understand this idea that kids will think they are 50% of their father, I grew up without my dad and certainly never felt that way (until I was old enough to learn genetics ) I thought I was made up of everyone in my family, not just two parents.

Life would have been so much simpler if I could have accepted my very kind stepdad as my 'dad', and if my mother had been more honest about the problems my real dad was dealing with at the time. (btw he got over them and we have a good relationship now, but I think it was quite harmful to me back then, trying to pretend like there was any kind of normal father-daughter relationship).

I think there is too much emphasis on kids having to have relationships with both birth parents -- if one of those parents is a twat, then it's really no loss. A great stepdad is a million times better than a shitty 'real dad'.

I would tell your daughter that her real dad is living abroad, and doesn't want to come back to England (ie, not so much he doesn't want to see her, but doesn't want to come back to the country). Say you don't know why he doesn't stay in touch, because you can't speak to him yourself. Say it may always be this way, but it's okay, because she has two parents who love her very much. Say her daddy left before she was even born so of course it doesn't have anything to do with her.

I would go forward mentally as if your DH has adopted her and the birth dad is out of the picture, if he does show up one day (unlikely) you can deal with it then.

Can't you just state the facts? ie 'I keep trying to get in touch with him and don't know why he has not responded'.

So for your little DD. What a cock this man is.

Oh PLEASE don't bad mouth him. Just stick to the facts.

I'll explain why I think this.

My Dad walked out on my Mum when she was pregnant and then failed to be in touch again. In the meantime, she told me that he was a feckless loser, who was selfish, etc, you name it. It meant that I had no desire whatsoever to find him when I was old enough - and in fact I was almost scared of the thought and almost perceived him as a 'monster' figure.

Fast forward to me being 35, when out of the blue I got a letter from a solicitor saying that he had died. Through them I have been in touch with 2 other children he had later (who he was in touch with) who tell me that all his life he talked about me and wanted to be in touch, but fundamentally that he was a weak man and thought that he might upset my life if he got in touch (i had a new 'Dad', my mum's new husband). he also thought that I would be in touch if I really wanted to meet him.

it makes me REALLY sad now. And my Mum played a large part in ensuring that he never played a part in my life. So let your daughter make her own decisions later, just love her and be there for her if he does turn out to be a complete loser even years on.

I agree with thehugemanatee.

He

"did some very naughty things and he had to go to prison for a bit" up to you how you then put prison to her - my DD (4) knows about the police and prison and what they are there for.

"went to live in a different country so he is a very long way away"

"I have tried to contact him and I don't know why he has not phoned/emailed back"

YWBU to bad mouth him to her, he is he father whatever you think of her.

YWNBU to tell her the truth. The truth is the truth. Just put it sensitively.

Just don't let your personal feelings affect how you talk about him to her in the context of him being her father.

Reading this with interest, my DD is just 3, her dad walked out just before her 1st birthday, I'm already dreading the "Why don't I have a Daddy/" question.....
I'm helped by the idea of keeping it short but true....
Would love to hear more stories of children growing up just fine without a Dad!
There is no Step dad and won't be one....have an older DD , can't possibly put her through another SD after the first one just disappeared after 4 years....
Hate the idea my girls lives will be shaped by the gutless actions of one bastard man

monstermood - has your ex refused to have any kind of contact with your DD since he left?

I am certain that DC benefit from having a relationship with both parents, if it is safe for them to do so; is there any way that she could have a relationship with her Dad? If he moves on with his life, she could also have the opportunity to share in his family life, too.
You could apply for a contact order through the court to try to ensure that she does have regular contact with him. It might make him face up to his responsibilities and at least show your DD in years to come that you did everything you could; even if her bioD isn't prepared to be a part of her life.

DarlingDuck, I haven't read through all of the posts because DS had me up most of the night with colic so apologies if what I'm about to say has been said but here goes (apologies in advance for the essay!)

My Mum could have written your post a good few years ago. Her & my Dad split when I was 12mo, he soon shacked up with his girlfriend (who is actually love to be fair) & took on her DS who is a month younger than me. For years my Mum made all the effort to get him to see me until I was old enough to call him myself. I would call him on a Sunday morning, he was arrange a time when he was to pick me up, he would always be at least 2hrs late & sometimes he just wouldn't even turn up. Yet, every Sunday I would sit at the window waiting, breaking my Mum's heart.

Of course, my Mum thought he was a complete twat bad Father, but she never bad-mouthed him to me because he was still my Dad. On my 5th Birthday, he came to pick me up to take me out for tea, he was late as usual & I hysterically told my Mum I didn't want to go, he accused her of 'turning me against him' to which she told him he had done that all by himself. I still saw him quite regularly after that but it was always me making contact & his girlfriend facilitating - telling him seeing his DD was more important than playing golf / watching football .etc. When I was 13, my mobile phone rang - I thought it was him ringing to say Happy Easter (I was still hopeful he was going to snap out of being an arse), I answered, he asked who he was talking to before telling me he meant to call his friend, not me. I decided then that this had gone on too long & that I really didn't need him in my life. I have only received one phonecall since then - when I was 16, he called me to gloat say how well my Stepbrother had done in his GCSEs, it was just too bad for him he underestimated me & I had passed double the amount my Stepbrother had to which my Dad replied 'oh, really...? Oh... well done'

Now, we haven't spoken in years, he has no idea I now live 135 miles away, am engaged & have a beautiful DS. His loss, not mine.

My DStepF however, him & my Mum got together when I too was 18mo, he did not adopt me formally but did take me on as his own daughter. Despite him & my Mum now being divorced, he is still, in my eyes, my Dad & my DS's Grandad. He has taken on my Fiance as his Son-in-Law too.

My point is, your DD will soon decide of her own accord that your XP is a dick & that your DP is far better than he could ever hope to be, by all means tell her the truth so she can understand it is not her fault but please don't bad-mouth him, it will only make you look bitter in your DD's eyes if she does choose to try & have contact with him in future.

Hope this helps! :)

"I don't understand this idea that kids will think they are 50% of their father" - it isn't "an idea" - it is a fact that genetically you are 50% of your birth paretns DNA each. This fact is more important to some people than others but at this stage I doubt the OP will have much idea which camp her DD will fall into.

Why do some people who were adopted want to trace birth family as soon as they can and others never feel the urge at all - who knows? But as a parent I think you need to be sensitive to the fact that your child may identify very strongly with th ebiologocial link. IMO the less of an issue you make it the less of an issue its likely to be for your children but even that is no guarantee - the childrne are entitled to feel however they want to and as a parent you need to react to that, not have a fixed idea in your head about how they should feel.