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AIBU?

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Original poster

To bad mouth DD's biological father to her...

146 replies

DarlingDuck · 02/07/2011 19:42

DD's biological father left us (returned to his home country) when she was 6 months old after being a complete cunt for 2 months. I spent the whole of my pregnancy alone as he went back to his country to try and earn some money when I was 2 month pregnant - and came back at 9 months with no money having spent it all. I was very young and have since learnt my lesson. he on the other hand didn't contact us for a year after leaving then went to prison for drug smuggling for 3 years. Once he was out he went on to have a child with another woman who he also left. He has had NO contact with DD despite me emailing him.

My DH wants to adopt DD (we have 2 more Ds's) but DD's biological father said no.... This was over a year ago and he STILL has made no attemot to contact her or me despite me encouraging it.

She has started asking hy he has never wanted to know her and I am getting sick of lying for him "oh he is too far away" and "he wasn;t ready to be a Dad" etc... please help!!!!!

OP posts:
HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 02/07/2011 23:02

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NotaDisneyMum · 02/07/2011 23:31

HRH - it was me Blush

The programme (and the book) emphasis not to bad mouth or put words into the mouths of the other/absent parent, but not to make excuses for them either.

A simple 'I don't know why he can't/won't see/call/email you, maybe one day you can ask him yourself" is the response I would give in this type of situation now, having done the course - regardless of my own feelings Sad

squidgysmum · 03/07/2011 00:12

Don't badmouth him as such but don't lie either- your dd will form her own opinions as she gets older.

My ds's dad is a cock but I would never dream of bad mouthing him to his son. Ds has only seen his father 3 times this year, he does ask for him occasionally, I just say he's busy at work (which is half true). He is a violent

My ds is only 3 though so that sort of response may not work on an older child.

I just don't think its a good idea to openly badmouth a parent in front of a child- you don't know what the future holds and that child could end up resenting you big time.

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 09:49

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Message withdrawn

AnyNameNotTaken · 03/07/2011 09:57

I don't think there is any harm in telling her the truth, you could be saving her a lot of heart ache in the long run

Animation · 03/07/2011 09:59

Don't say he has NEVER wanted to know her though!

That's a bit too much for a 6 year old or anyone for that matter to take in.

I think you can be truthful about the rest.

IAmATroglodyte · 03/07/2011 10:11

My 4 year old DD1 has no memory of her biological father as I haven't let him near her for two years. She calls my DP (father of DD2) dad. Ex has been trying to get access to DD1 through the courts but it won't get him anywhere because as soon as contact starts again I'll be letting her know what a shitbag he is.

Frankly I don't believe for a moment she'll be 'upset' because of some bizarre idea about her being half from him. She knows I love her.

Besides my Dad didn't want to know me and I turned out perfectly fine without a father.

NotaDisneyMum · 03/07/2011 10:28

IAAT - the Putting Children First course also covered the link between parental alienation (which is what you are practicing with your DD) and the absence of a parent when the alienator was a child themselves.

The UK family court is beginning to recognise Parental alienation as a phenomenon (in the US it has been acknowledged for some years) and if your DDs father challenges your actions in court, you could find that the court orders therapy for your DD to undo the damage that you have caused to her relationship with her bio-dad Sad

DogsBestFriend · 03/07/2011 10:33

NADM what a load of claptrap! (Not YOU, the Parental Alienation bollocks! :) ).

And what a surprise, it originated in American!

Cocoflower · 03/07/2011 10:34

This really is not an issue with an easy answer.

If anyone else who has grown up without one of their parents because the parent was, hmm unsavoury shall we shall say, and does not mind posting (even under a different name) to what the consquences where to

a) knowing the truth all along
b) Not finding out until an adult

I personally we be really, really intrested to hear how it effected them (as Im sure so would the OP and others in a similar position) because its such an important issue to get right but like a maze to know which way to go and when.

Cocoflower · 03/07/2011 10:39

In regards to PAS it can only be regarded as that if there is "no justification". There clearly is the OP's case.

DogsBestFriend · 03/07/2011 10:49

Me, Cocoflower.

I knew the truth all along. I found my father when I was 22 (parents seperated when I was about 2), largely out of curiosity but also to find out more about my whole ancestry/roots as we have a large and surprisingly interesting family and went into the situation with my eyes wide open.

I have no false hopes of a perfect father, no false idol as baggage. It's a refreshing, confidence-inspiring way to do things IME and IMO. I met a man I got on with well but was ever mindful of the truth as it had been told to me. Before long I saw what could have happened had I not been aware of it all.

My father's an exceptionally clever, articulate man... and he uses it well. I saw how he used that intellect, I saw how he could manipulate and how he wouldn't lie but could re-write history all the same.... but thanks to knowing more than he'd credited my mother for telling me I was ready for it.

My father's not the man he tries to convince me he is - and he's not the man I wanted him to be either.

But he is the man my mother warned me about and I'm bloody grateful to her that she did.

Cocoflower · 03/07/2011 10:58

Thank you DogsBestFriend.

How much of the gory details did you mother tell you to your knowledge? Did she more just give a general feeling he wasn't a good man or did she specify things?

I don't know how much I could tell dc as some of it the stuff of nightmares.

Cocoflower · 03/07/2011 11:00

Intresting point about not making him an idol either- I suppose if they know nothing at all it would be easy to project an 'perfect' father onto a blank canvas.

NotaDisneyMum · 03/07/2011 11:00

Cocoflower - I'm not suggesting that the OP doesn't tell her DD the truth (when she is old enough) about her dads drug smuggling etc, but I believe a child should be allowed to form their own opinions based on that - alienation relates to putting pressure on the child because of the alienating parents opinion of the absent parent.

If a child concludes for themselves that they don't want anything to do with a parent because of the way that parent behaves, then that is a consequence of actions; but if the child is told by a parent "I don't care that your biodad wants to see you, or what the court says, he's a sh*thead so I don't want you to" then the child has to choose between upsetting one parent or not seeing the other Sad

It can backfire - there are cases where a child has been withheld from one parent by another - only to turn against the alienating parent when they are older and have concluded for themselves what was actually going on Sad

AmberLeaf · 03/07/2011 11:04

IAAT

Ex has been trying to get access to DD1 through the courts but it won't get him anywhere because as soon as contact starts again I'll be letting her know what a shitbag he is.

What a very cruel thing to do to a 4 yr old.

Frankly I don't believe for a moment she'll be 'upset' because of some bizarre idea about her being half from him.

But she is half from him!

LunarRose · 03/07/2011 11:05

I can sympathise. I could not to tell my daughter of the problems with her Dad, but when he turns around and tell her he hates her, her brother and her whole family (my side) and if I was telling her he was a good person or generally evading the issue, I can't imagine how confused she would end up being in the long term. The whole question of damage is really difficult.

I also disagree that they might grow up to be 1/2 like the father and therefore hate themselves. I hope dearly that my children DONT grow up to be like their dad and hopefully being aware might stop the bad bits developing.

IAmATroglodyte · 03/07/2011 11:08

I'm not making her choose, I'm living my life with my family. That's DP, DD1 and DD2, doesn't involve DD's biodad. I'm not letting her see him because he is a twat a d she doesn't feel she has to choose because she doesn't know him, doesn't remember him and calls my DP dad. She is losing nothing. If he does get contact through the court I will make sure she is aware of his true nature. That's not alienating, it's making sure she isn't disappointed.Ci don see why be doesn't just move on and leave me and my family alone.

I think OP should tell her daughter exactly what her father is like so the child can choose for herself if she wants to know him.

Gastonladybird · 03/07/2011 11:08

My father left my mother (and us) when I was 2 1/2. We had no contact with him and by all accounts he wasn't much cop with maintenance. He died when I was 12 .

Whilst my mother didnt hide facts of what happened it wasn't an easy topic to broach with her so a lot got unanswered. Made worse I suppose as there was no chance to see what kind of man my father was as he died (and had little family to speak of so no contact there).

I think my mother did best she could in circumstances (and she never bad mouthed him for which I am grateful - that is never appropriate). But the fact so much was unsaid (was It really out blue? Why no contact after - having a daughter of same age I find that brutal ).

So I think my rambling is that not only don't bad mouth them but Try to be as open and honest as possible. The legacy of my mums (well meaning ) approach is that I constantly expect the worst to happen and come out the blue (as I still have no help/ context to what happened) and am acutely conscious of what isn't being said/ owned up to.

BuckBuckMcFate · 03/07/2011 11:12

I haven't read the whole thread but have had similar circumstances with DS1. It is hard not to get angry and slate the absent parent off. But, unfairly, the responsibility for explaining their absence falls with you.

With DS I have always said that his Dad is a lovely person, which is why I went out with him in the 1st place but he is just not very good at being a dad. (and yes, it is hard to say they are lovely, but IMO children don't need to hear that they're not at 6)

DS is 14 now and over the years I have explained more to him about the situation with his Dad, trying to let him guide me as to what he is ready to hear.

DS now knows the basics, but not all of the individual horrible things his dad did. He has said to me I'm glad that you split up mum and I'm glad that dp is his stepdad.

I think you need to take a long term view of this

And find someone else to rant to about how shitty it is for your daughter. I still want to punch DS's dad when I think how he has made him feel but I keep that to myself as DS needs me to be neutral.

Good luck

DogsBestFriend · 03/07/2011 11:14

Coco, I would say warts and all although I suspect that there is more that my mother didn't go into as I know from personal experience that there's only so much a person cares to recall or discuss.

I knew him for what he was, much of which was not pleasant. The fact is my mother wasn't lying and she wasn't wrong either. She equiped me with the knowledge and as a result a healthy sense of cynicism scepticism which was the kindest, most helpful and empowering thing she could have done. Had she not I'd have been an idealist teenager dreaming of something I was never going to have and an absolutely heartbroken woman when I found that out.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/07/2011 11:18

As I'm a fan of the truth when it comes to children because I think they know when we're deliberately holding back - it's clear she's not happy with the explanations so far or she wouldn't be asking the question . I also think they are much more emotionally intelligent and more resilient than we give them credit for and would definitely not avoid this one any more . Children are familiar with the black/white emotions of the playground and they can understand concepts like 'falling out', 'bullying', 'avoiding each other' and so on. Don't tell her anything in anger because you're regret it. But wait until you're calm and thinking straight and then give her some age-appropriate information.

Original poster
DarlingDuck · 03/07/2011 11:20

NotaDisneyMum the parental alienation doesn't apply to my situation as I have never said anything negative about her biological Dad.

The facts are not interpretable, I am not giving a biased view at all.

I think this may apply when you pass on your own negativity that has arrised out of your own relationship break down and whatever resebtments that may entail. I have no issue whatsoever with him as an ex partner or our own relationship, even if I did this woud be between him and I and nothing to do with DD whatsoever.

The issue I have is the fact he has not contacted her and does not appear to want to have anything to do with her at the moment

OP posts:
IAmATroglodyte · 03/07/2011 11:22

AmberLeaf I meant some bizarre idea that she will feel bad because she is half from him.

unpa1dcar3r · 03/07/2011 11:22

I was always honest with my girls. Never made excuses as to why the fathers were dickhead, just that they were and that was that. That it wasn't their fault and it was entirely their fathers loss as they were the ones missing out on 2 amazing girls.
Never stopped them seeing them, in fact encouraged it and bent over backwards to enable it. But they were losses who didn't really care.

My husband adopted the girls at their request when they were about 10 n 12. The solicitor wrote the fathers and the 2nd one agreed easily, the 1st ex husband didn't but solicitor pushed it a bit and he agreed with self pitying letters to daughter.
Your solicitor can push it, especially if you weeren't married I think.

I'd be honest. Although it may hurt at first as long as u emphasise that none of his failings are her fault and that he is just a troubled person who can't see the beauty of his lovely daughter, also that she has a non biological father who thinks the world of her etc...

My girls don't give a stuff about the sperm donors. They adore their adopted dad. And are well adjusted, confident and happy young ladies of 20 and 22 now.