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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

1001 replies

seeker · 29/06/2011 23:37

.....not a feminist?

OP posts:
HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 23:32

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LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:33

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Carminagetsprimal · 03/07/2011 23:33

I'm too tired to read it Tina - or just can't be bothered if I'm honest.

LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:37

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HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 23:37

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HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 23:39

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Niecie · 03/07/2011 23:39

Lordy, this thread moves fast. I have deleted about 5 posts because I took too long to compose an response.

Anyway, it is difficult to report quite a lot of the posts that put me off because they are not overtly attacking, they just patronise and belittle. If it weren't for the fact that others seem to have found the same thing I might think I was imagining it. By the time I had worked through what was really going on the moment would have passed. Feeble but true.

LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:40

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garlicnutter · 03/07/2011 23:41

they are not overtly attacking, they just patronise and belittle. If it weren't for the fact that others seem to have found the same thing I might think I was imagining it.

YYY, Niecie! That's not feeble. It's a classic response to head-fucking/bullying/abuse.

LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:42

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LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:44

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HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 23:44

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LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:45

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HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 23:46

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exoticfruits · 03/07/2011 23:46

I have just looked at the Bristol Palin thread for the first time and see that when I thought I was mauled I go off lightly in comparison to that thread! You have my sympathy HRH-that was a real mauling.

exoticfruits · 03/07/2011 23:46

got not go

sunshineandbooks · 03/07/2011 23:48

I wandered off this thread a while back because it all got very aggressive and unpleasant, but having popped back to it, there's a few things that I have found useful to read. I always like to find consensus rather than hold on to differences because I think it's the only way forward in any argument. Some of the anti-feminist digs on here have been quite nasty (and yes I've noticed those in particular because I am a feminist and I am sure that the non-feminists feel the same about posts attacking them) but I have kept on reading because I think it is important to understand each other's POV and see how people whose posts I have read and admired on other areas of the board can have opinions so different to mine on this thread.

To the poster who says they have a lot of feminist ideals but do not identify as feminist in the same way as you're quite eco-friendly but do not identify as an environmentalist, I think that's a fabulous summing up and has made a light-bulb go off in my head. It probably describes an awful lot of women who have posted on this thread. It's not that they're rejecting feminist principles by refusing to identify as feminists, it's just that consider equality between the sexes as just one of the many principles they hold important in their lives. As a feminist I think that explanation is 'cool' and I wouldn't consider anyone who identified with it to be anti-feminist or misogynistic.

As a feminist and I like that explanation. For some reason I 'get it' whereas the "I'm an equalist" explanation always makes me feel like those who say it are in denial of the fact that women still face a lot of (often unseen) disadvantages in life (though I am prepared to admit that I may be interpreting that denial unfairly BTW, as the word 'equality' has heavy connotations in feminist theory). Perhaps I have unfairly been labelling the "equalists" with faults they don't have and that's good to know. Can anyone who has called themselves an equalist come back and tell me if my second paragraph sums you up or whether I'm still wrong, please? TIA.

Personally, I love the feminist boards. I have learned a lot. I have had complete changes of heart about some of my attitudes - porn and rape - having read more about them. I have also had quite long-running disagreements with other feminists about the SAHM/WOHM debate on the feminist boards but I can't say I've ever felt like I shouldn't be in there. I think mostly we accept that there is room for us all - feminism is a very broad political arena.

But I am saddened if people genuinely feel shouted down, especially if they are new to feminism and their first forays result in them feeling silly or unwelcome. That's not very nice at all. I for one will make a greater effort to explain concepts that I may think are 'a given' in case someone who hasn't come across them before is reading.

I know I am a persistent debater myself, but I believe I have always been reasonable and polite and I have never resorted to name-calling or insults, though because I am human I am sure I have occasionally used dodgy humour, irony and been a little patronising on more than one occasion Wink. But that's the nature of a discussion forum, surely? You can't get upset if people don't agree with you no matter how hard you try to change their mind. If we're all going to hold hands, agree with each other and cave in the first time someone voices an opinion strongly, the debate isn't going to go very far.

That said, I think it is entirely possible to have a reasoned debate and remain polite. I don't like aggression in threads and personally I think it detracts from people's arguments.

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 03/07/2011 23:48

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Carminagetsprimal · 03/07/2011 23:52

What a lovely post sunshineandbooks.

exoticfruits · 03/07/2011 23:52

You can stay Queen-I have resolved to keep clear and not even read in future! If I read I feel obliged to challenge narrow minded views.

sparky246 · 03/07/2011 23:53

well-despite this really long thread-we are still left with the problem that some women are saying that they dont feel comfatable in the feminist section.
this is wrong and sad.
how can we try and change this?can we?
pheraps another thread?[or is this a dodgy idea?]
apart from this thread-theres been women come to feminist section and said that they lurk but dont post as they are uncomfatable.
so all in all i feel that this is something that needs addressing!
i cant believe that years ago i was helping to fight for womens rights and now im writing this to try and stop women fighting with each other-its mind boggling!

exoticfruits · 03/07/2011 23:56

That said, I think it is entirely possible to have a reasoned debate and remain polite.

I think so to and many of the regulars have been polite and reasonable and I have been able to agree with much of what they say or at least give it some serious thought. However it is spoilt by those who not only belittle and patronise but are actually proud of the fact!

Empusa · 03/07/2011 23:56

This isn't a situation which is unique to the feminist boards, so I hope no one reads it as a direct attack.

Now, I know there are reasons why many feminists dislike things like Burlesque. Due to the history of Burlesque, I totally get that. However, knowing more about what has influenced the recent Burlesque revival I am aware it's aim isn't a million miles off of what most feminists are trying to achieve. It just goes about it a very differnt way, and has also been victim to companies and media reducing it to its lowest common denominator (eg. tits out).

I've been in many an argument about it with people who identify as feminists. Sometimes it has been interesting, mostly it's been insulting. And what has always wound me up is how many of these "feminists" have gone on about how it belittles women/reduces them to objects/values them only based on their appearance, and then gone on to make comments like "burlesque is just stripping for fat goths" with absolutely no sense of irony!

I don't get how they can say they want to change the way women are reduced to mere objects to be judged by appearance and then go on to do exactly the same thing in the nastiest way possible.

I'd like to say it's a minority way of acting, but IME it hasn't been. Maybe it's self selecting as those who feel the need to comment on Burlesque negatively are also more likely to tell me they do so from a feminist perspective. Maybe there are whole swathes of feminists who just don't speak up. But I don't know.

Goblinchild · 03/07/2011 23:58

I think as long as people can lurk and read, there's hope.
I don't think it's an issue if people wander in asking questions and wanting to find out about something they know little about, the arguments seem to be triggered if someone has a strong opinion about something that doesn't mesh with the usual opinions, then it's challenged and sometimes the language is very robust and the stance very strong.
Then a fight starts...

LeninGrad · 03/07/2011 23:59

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