AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

[seeker]

.....not a feminist?

MarySueFTW wrote - "I'd even say more women manage to dominate their men than vice versa (personal experience, what you see on reality shows all the time, etc)."

Seeing something on a "reality" TV show makes it true, does it?

Nah. The thorn/porn is a result of poor spelling taught in these so-called schools by useless left-wing teachers. And most of them are probably feminsts. With a lisp. Tsk!

I do love your posts, sunshine :)

Garlic, it was brought up. She made it quite clear that it would be expected if she earned more. As it happened, she still had her part time job after finishing college, and I had a full time job. It was therefore the logical choice in our case. And although she wanted to go to work at first, as soon as she laid eyes on our DS for the first time the thought didn't occur to her again.

If it had been me, I don't think I would have minded too much. Granted, my instinct is to provide (maybe put there by the idea that men must work in order to be useful, not look after kids), but I find it easy enough to overide instints. At least, I hope I wouldn't have. I guess I'll never know for sure.

I suppose it's impossible to tell how many SAHM's are doing it because they want to and not because they have to.

It's not just about reality TV, I see it all the time with my girlfriends. They always go on about how their husband give in to them for almost anything. On the off chance chance their husbands don't agree, they can just throw a hissy-fit or kick them out of the house for a while. That usually makes their men come around.

"when a woman states that she is not a feminist, simply ask her if she is content to be paid 20% less than her male counterparts."

You are twisting the facts. No woman in a regular job is paid less than her counterparts. It's illegal. It is not right to spread the lie that women are being paid less than men for the exact same job. The figures that show a pay gap are about adding it all up together, and guess what, some men are in hugely important jobs paying bucketloads - and some women choose lower paid jobs or work less hours because it suits them - which brings me to my next point -

"MarySue - do you think that women are as well represented in the running of our society as men?"

The country is run by the super-rich, the same people that have been running it forever. The rich women have it easy. The woman doesn't even need to work, shecan raise the kids (with staff) or she can have a little boutique that makes no money, or spend her time raising money for charity - or just go for endless lunches. That's how the women in the ruling elite live, and one of the reasons why the top earners are male. As I asked before, who has more power, a poor man or a rich woman? The men at the top do not share their money with the men not in the ruling elite. Those powerful male judges do not wink at the poor men like Masons and let them off - in fact they are more lenient with women for the same crimes. This is not a country run by men for men - it is a country run by the rich for the rich.

If feminism was about equality, it would care about that, not as it so often does, whether one very rich woman is getting paid less than another very rich man.

woah! porn is just a crutch we men use as a way of dealing with our lack of imagination and temporary testosterone issues. consumption of porn surely cannot be used to consign a guy to the misogynist bin? surely not! there is a chosen by women section on my preferred porn streaming site (god that sounds like people who say "i'm not racist because i have black friends" ...

what i'm trying to say is, having tug over a mills and boon is difficult coz turning the pages requires a another hand... oh crap that sounds like i'm placing personal convenience whilst attempting to gain tempoarary relief from sexual frustration over feminist principles.

dif a hole, dif a hole, dig a hole.

dig even. doh!

You are one big turn on BBW

the pay thing--- is the 20% pay thing a lie? public or private sector? you may have a point with the public sector... do you ever wonder why so many private sector employees are forbidden to discuss their salaries with other employees?

BigBadWolfie - "there is a chosen by women section on my preferred porn streaming site"

And there was a lesbian blogger in Syria (who turned out to be man).

vesuvia , I do hope you're not implying that porn merchants LIE?

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit Hully. sending this crap up to be laughed at is sometimes the best anyone can hope for. what was it that shakespear thought was the soul (of wit)..? oh yeah, brevity.

sending this crap up to be laughed at is sometimes the best anyone can hope for

you what, luv?

Don't you have an imagination, BBW? I just shut my eyes and bring on some good memories if the pipes need cleaning (It has to come out at some point, you know. Better that than while your asleep.).

I think porn usage is more of a "don't care" in most cases than an act of misoginy (OK, some exceptions, but on the whole).

Apparently, 88% of men use porn. Less in long term relationships. So not everyone. Saw that on MSN, so it must be true.

Also vesuvia, if you're implying that porn merchants LIE, you're also suggesting that porn consumers are THICK.

Yoou can't have meant that, they are such sweet, bright little noddles on the whole.

Sunshineandbooks, do you seriously believe that as many as 50% of women are in abusive relationships? I agree with some of the other things you say, but that is the sort of fantasy scaremongering that many women will laugh off through life experience and then see many feminists as silly.

You state you don't hate men, but you do believe half of them are abusive to their partners. If you believe the last statement, your first statement seems extremely forgiving!

apologies for poorly thoguth out posts and atrocious spelling- hands full (with care of DC's for those of you with foul imaginings).

Oh, and BTW, there are 5 of us in my office doing exactly the same job. I happen to know that of the 5 of us, the one woman in the office who is payed the most. She's also been here the longest, so it's probably an irrelevent fact. But she's not lower payed than the men.

Perhaps she gets paid that bit extra more than every other woman on the planet for her spelling talents?

Have you never been flamed on the feminist boards seeker?
You haven't lived until you've been sliced, diced and gently roasted over an open flame by a group of intelligent articulate and focused women who know how to frame an argument and have stamina

I have had this, every time that I venture on! I follow you around a lot of threads, seeker, and I haven't seen you on there.
AnnieLodeseder has expressed all that is wrong with it and I agree with every word. The most extreme was the fact that you are not safe living with a man and those statististics are skewed by transgender (sheer paranoia!).

I take exception having 3 DSs-any woman is utterly safe with any of my DSs-I am so sure that I could bet my life on it. They are way out of date, my DSs have girls who are friends (an alien idea)-they can go out in a group and stay the night-platonically-that is normal.

It is a clique on there. I can agree with well balanced posts but then they all turn and say that the well balanced person is saying the same as the person who has very extreme views, needs counselling and damaging her DD! (this includes the one I agree with and the one I disagree with whose posts are no way near the same).

There is one view and you have to have it-or you will be ground down, your posts nit picked and torn to shreds -and then if they don't get anywhere they are deeply patronising.

I know that any talk of the 'patriarchy' is going to be deeply depressing and I shall do as goblinchild, smile and move on. Life is too short!

Surely Sunshine means that 50% are equals or in control, and 50% or subordinate (but not necessarily abused)?

I have had that experience, exotic, sadly being a feminist and a raving loon are not always incompatible. Say no more.

men and porn... it's funny, get it? as for the lesbian male blogger... it can't be denied that some women, women that would consider themselves feminists even... are happy to consume porn. infact my dear firend and her bf both consume porn (mainly coz they work opposing shifts but still) and why not? okay the ratio is likely heavily weighted in one direction but... why should i have to waste my imagination on a wank when i could reserve what little there is left on other more suitable things? anyhow.. defo ducking out. things to do, shallower waters in which to swim.

Actually I prefer the porn chosen by women, too BBW.

But it is true, the companies have to report individual names to the taxman, along with how much money they made, and withhold for taxes. When all that is taken into account, it turns out women are paid as much as men for the same job, working the same hours, under the same conditions.

What a lot of studies do is just add up what all the women made, then add up what all the men made, and just average it out. You can't do that. Your gonna usually end up with the 70-80 percent figure for women compared to men if you do that.

The right way to do it is to look at each profession and make the average between men and women, within that profession. Doing that, you can see that men and women make the same for that job.