to not want to help someone to live after my death?

[dolldaggabuzzbuzz]

I am on the organ donor register. I am willing to donate all my organs to those who may need them in the event of my untimely death.

However, if the new system of presumed consent is brought in, I am opting out. I can't explain why I feel like I do about this. Am I being unreasonable?

But Bubble the person who the organs belonged to will be dead. They will not care when they are dead who has their organs, even if in life they 'objected' to presumed consent.

We respect the feelings of dead people when it comes to wills. Why not with respect to organ donation?

The Alder Hey organ retention scandal showed pretty clearly that people are incredibly distressed when their relatives' organs are removed without permission or even notification. (It wasn't just Alder Hey, IIRC pathologists at every children's hospital had been taking organs without permission for decades, Alder Hey was just the first to be exposed.)

The state does not own our bodies and never should own our bodies. That's an extremely dangerous precedent. Organ donation is altruistic. It should not be enforced. Even if that enforcement is by omission, by assuming someone said 'take the lot' when they didn't actually say anything of the sort.

And it is perfectly rational for someone to say they are happy to sign a voluntary register but not happy to have the state assume consent without bothering to ask.

It's also entirely rational for someone to say 'I don't want to donate but if I ever need an organ I'm first in the queue'. Not very altruistic, but there is logic there (it's the logic of 'me first', which isn't very nice, but is rational).

Well said, Edam.

OP, I kind of get what you are saying, and can neither say yabu or yanbu...BUT

EggyAllenPoe I'm so sorry.

Have just registered. Thank you for giving me that much needed shove. x

in DS case the post mortem was very non-optional. far more invasive than donation of a retina. to my mind, that little body wasn't him any more anyway.

and he would want the other boy to see better.

Hi everyone, I just wanted to give a different side to the issue. I had a double organ transplant 4 years ago when I was 26 (a kidney and pancreas). I had type 1 diabetes from the age of 12 and various other problems and basically I ended up with kidney failure, I was losing my eyesight and was told would be blind within the year), had heart problems, nerve damage, stomach problems etc. When I was told that I would urgently need a kidney and pancreas transplant I and my family were very shocked. It would never have entered my head that I may need a transplant and I didn't even know this was an option. I was lucky enough to receive my transplant in March 2007 and the transplant saved my life. I am now a 'normal' healthy 31 year old. I am and have been to to places I never could before (Thailand, Hong Kong etc), I married my partner who had been with me through everything and my miracle baby boy Ollie was born last November. Ollie is one of 3 babies in the UK born to someone who has had a kidney pancreas transplant and around the 20th in the world. I am so blessed and lucky and I appreciate everything I have so much. A few months after my transplant I wrote to my donor's family to thank them for the wonderful gift of life. There are no words in the english language to express my gratitude and being given a second chance of life. My donor's mum wrote back to me, my donor was a 19 year old boy and his mum made the decision to donate his organs. She said that after reading my letter she knew she had made the right decision in donating his organs and I know he also saved 5 other peoples' lives. I have written to her again now to tell her about Ollie and to let her know that Ollie's middle name is Lawrence (in memory of my donor). I think constantly of my donor and his family and what they must have been through and after my transplant I felt alot of guilt that I had lived and someone had died and given me that opportunity to live. My donor is now my inspiration in life and I am determined to live my life and take every opportunity I can. With regards to presumed consent (and this probably sounds strange), I can see where people are coming from in not being comfortable with it. I think perhaps if there was alot more education around the subject of organ donation people may be more open to it. Like I said, neither my family or I were on the organ donor register before as it is something we had never thought about it. Statistics show that you are more likely to need a transplant than to donate your organs. Sorry this is so long! Donating blood too is a marvellous thing people can do for example, after my transplant I needed emergancy surgery because of internal bleeding and the 4 pints of blood I received saved me and my new organs. I am one of the lucky ones and I count my blessings every day, people die on the organ donor register everyday but at the same time to make a decision on behalf of a loved one at the most traumatic time in your life must be very difficult.

oops, skimmed the thread and hadn't seen eggy's post. Wow.

People get distressed because it is natural to feel distressed at the time of bereavement. This ruling would allow a rational compassionate act to take place without hindrance. If we are truly serious about saving lives then we need to focus on the outcome, not see it as state interference.The state does not own a body and never will. People can opt out if they really want to. Nothing is forced.

several points were queried when going though tissue donation - it is very in-depth.

i very much doubt that donation would be enforced - i just imagine it would make it necesary to get the question asked. even when requested it wasn't enforced! every detail was questioned. the lady on the phone was crying.

the picture some paint of wanton harvesting of everything was not represented in my experience.

on the point of body-ownership - after death, your body has to be released by the coroner, who has to be satisfied about cause of death etc.

Organ donation is actually a much smaller issue pertaining to this - the law already owns all human remains after death.

Which is why you can steal an organ but not a body if I remember correctly.

you sound like a contrary twat, to be honest.

Who was that aimed at?

I feel that it is forcing me to make a decision by bringing something like that in and that kind of feels wrong.... why should I have to make a decision (that sounds selfish I know) If I was to donate I want it to have come from me instigating and making that decision. I also would only every willing receive if I'd known the person was 100% happy to do so. How would you ever know they were if this new law came in?

Still think it is completely awful of people like bubble to say they would accept organs but not donate - what an utterly disgusting disgusting disgusting (!) attitude.

feel anyway you like but don't be such a bloody hypocrite!

really makes me think we should have a register that people who don't want to give organs should not receive either

the op, and I think its fair. "you can have my organs. Escept if you change the system to make it so more people will get organs, and less people will die. Then you can't". Says contrary twat to me, to be honest.

agree teak

and just a downright stupid way to think!

i don't go for that - people should have a choice. if they can't bear to donate in a time of distress - let them have that. But make it easier for the HCPs to ask the question. And then accept no if that is the answer. at the moment the question isn't getting asked.

Glad you clarified

maybe I should have another drink, I can still kinda spell.

Eggy I am so sorry I had also skimmed through posts here. You did an amazing thing I can't imagine what you must have gone through. Luna thank you for registering. I have actually seen something this evening to say that the UK organ donor register has reached a record high of 18 million people registered.

I wish I hadn't posted now because it's probably one of those ones I don't like thinking talking about and I have to say I sit on the fence with it and that could be wrong for many people. Sorry. p.s just want to add I have only just started reading previous posts and it might sway me. x

First may I apologise I haven't read the entire thread.

My DS3 carried his donor card everywhere with him. He got his donor card when he was about 4 years old. He wanted a 'big willy' and wondered if when he was a big boy he would be able to get a donated 'big willy' ROFL. He thought that being a donor was great. He even tried to sign his own name on his card.

Life went on, as life does. Just before he was 8 years old he was killed by a reversing lorry right outside our house which was on a quiet estate. When we got to the hospital with him he was declared 'dead on arrival.' I asked the nurse could any of his organs be used. She was very shocked that I had asked. I told her to look in his jeans pocket and she would find his donor card. She came back a little while later holding the crumpled, creased card. She told me that because of his crush injuries the only thing he could donate were his corneas.

A little while later I was told that two children who previously had severe sight problems could now see thanks to my precious lad.

I, personally, think that we should really consider organ donation...I understand the worries about it all. Believe me that it was very hard to tell that my DS3 had had any organs removed from his body.

Tomorrow my precious lad will be 27 years old. I am thankful for every day I spent with him - although it was much too short a time. Please everybody consider organ donation, and even more importantly tell your relatives about your wishes.

Has anyone actually come up with a good reason for not donating organs?

Apart for the asinine "Well, nobody tells me what to do" and the peurile "Oooooooh it make me feel all ...oh I don't know...I just don;t like the thought of it"

Oh Shabba. Your precious boy. So, so sorry for your loss. And also yours, Eggy.