AIBU to tell my brother to stick himself?

[fallenninja]

OK so brief background. about 10 years ago my DB got himself into a quite sticky financial mess. He had what should have been a very profitable business but he kept "borrowing" money to fund his and his DWs lifestyle. Cue massive debts, and verge of bankruptcy.

I very luckily had a house with a fair whack of equity in it, due to inheritance / buying cheaply when my parents divorced. With a whole host of conditions and reservations and following massive conversations I agreed for DB to raise a loan secured on my house (idiot) in order for him to sort this out. This was for £150k (i know even bigger idiot). Arrangement was simple. DB repaid the loan, over the 20years that it was for. DB didnt. Massive family falling out. I ended up remortgaing and obviously am now and will be forever paying the stupid loan off.

Over the last 5 years or so we seem to have repaired the family rift, and whilst it still galls me, I suppose in some ways ive let it go.

So now ...
DB yet again has got himself in a mess, there is to be a family meeting tonight to dicuss how to help him. Hes in a deep depression, his wife has left him (money issues - he can no longer keep her to the style she expects) and he obviously is in debt again. He tried to commit sucide last weekend.

Now obviously i am concerned about him, I love him, and dont want anything terrible to happen to him, but i have no interest in helping him financially or in any big commited way, which is where the disagreement is coming in.

Suggestion 1. I have a parcel of land which I know a builder would purchase to develop, so option is that I sell my plot of land, give the money to DB, and then his mum/DB will pay me a monthly sum up and until the value is met (including interest), so Ive not lost out as such.

Suggestion 2. DB IVAs and we as a family help him with the payments and also with the running of his business, I as an accountant seem to have been signed up for the massive brunt of this. Set up budgets/monitor expenditure/blah blah blah. However I know my brother and he wont pay any attention to me saying no, so i think it wont work

However if he did do something stupidly stupid because I didnt help i would struggle to forgive myself, but this is how i got guilted persuaded to help last time

So AIBU to say get lost? Or is DBs mum in asking me to consider this?

(Im off on the school run then popping to town, so shall return at lunch for the verdict)

"I don't think I've ever felt so fearful for someone I've never met. Ninja I do hope you are ok"

To me it's something to do with feeling the OP is in thrall to some kind of cult mentality. You can check out anytime you like but you can't ever leave.

I'd rather be alone than have that kind of control / manipulation hanging over me.

Ditto kalinda! Hmmm sausages!!

Actually 'in thrall' is right - to feel morally enslaved and in bondage with someone.

Have a good weekend ninja, Hope you've got away.x

Plupervert - Kungpu? Well NOW I have self esteem issues!

It is exciting. I have spent the last 10 years with the constant feeling that one day someone will say "Aha! You can't be a real lawyer. You are just KFP" and I will be rumbled. And then every now and again I find that I actually know some law and I turn into the over-keen kid from school, practically jumping up and down in court with my hand in the air yelling "I know! Your honour! Your honour! I know!"

And BofF - speedial is fine but I don't type fast on a phone so you might be there for a while waiting for your letter.

Hi everyone,

Havent read all the messages since yesterday, but just thought I would pop on to let you all know how things are at the min.

I am currently in Wales, having legged it up here last night, and I dont intend to come back until Sunday evening. if ever

P turned up yesterday afternoon, to lay the guilt trip on me to speak to dad and share with him how terrible DB is feeling, and how worried she is that i wont shell up the money that he wont get the help he needs. She brought her friend, you know the one that will buy my land, because she couldnt drive ha Long story short, I said before I would even consider selling the land, I would want it valued properly by a proper estate agents, not some bloke that develops houses that P knows from the pub. This did not go down very well.

However, I told my dad I have no intention of selling it, and even if i did it would not be to give the money to DB. My dad actually agreed.

However the decision still sits uneasily with me, so I have come here rather than cave. Im thinking of sending pandas email to them tonight, so she can kick off but get it out her system before I return home.

We have not been told how DB is doing, because apparently we dont deserve it as "we have washed our hands of him"

Ninja, I bailed a family member out repeatedly over the years. I was always convinced that this would be the time they would sort themselves out. They never did because I kept proving the crutch for them not to have to stand on their own two feet. In the long run I didn't do them or myself any favours. I eventually made a stand and while it was not easy it has given me peace. I am no longer on tenter hooks every time this person calls. Your first responsibility is to you and your children. Try to keep focused on that. Good luck

"We have not been told how DB is doing, because apparently we dont deserve it as "we have washed our hands of him""

Well, that says it all, doesn´t it?

OP, what hideous emotional blackmail, DB's mum sounds horrendous.

Why doesn't SHE bail him out and remortgage HER house?!

I so hope you stay strong, keep us posted here, o.k.?

Whatever money you give (I hope none), you will guaranteed NOT get it back.

My cousin is a hopeless case, can't hold a job down, yet wants to live a certain lifestyle (eg new furniture every 5 years, and glam hols every year as you wouldn't want to be seen by your friends as not keeping up, would you?!). He managed to borrow 100k from my gran (got her to sign, she has sever dementia, so she doesn;t remember it). Cousin told us that if and when Gran would die, our side of the family would get "the money". We did nothing as I thing inheritance chasing is awful, and we hoped Gran woudl liev long enough to spend it all on herself.

Anyway, when she died, my parents inherited....a debt! In theory they could go to court and sue cousin, but suing your own family is a pretty bad thing to do, and my parents wisely decided to just leave it. After all, none of us "needed" Gran's money as we all have jobs.

Cousin now contacts ME for loans, I say "no". I feel sorry for him, but know the money would just go into a bottomless pit. Interestingly, HIS mum (my aunt) never financially supports him, yet we are always asked as we are so "lucky" (ie we have jobs and no new furniture every 5 years and luxurious hols). She thinks that we are greedy for not sharing with her son.

Yet her home is mortgage free and she would not DREAM of taking on debt for him .

I think, in your case, you can contact DB, and tell him you support him emotionally. You can tell him you will give him advice if he wants to. But you have your own family to look after, so financial support is out of the question. repeat ad nauseam.

Don't let DB mum decide that you can only have contact with DB if you give him money. She sounds a truly revolting hideous woman.

What a fucking bitch. They sound like they are using your brother as an excuse to get the land off you and screw you over, I wonder if she will get a cut of the money?

You've done the right thing going away. Also remember what was said above, if you did sell the land whilst undergoing a court case, you're deliberately depriving yourself of assets (or whatever the technical term is).

I think you should give us all her email address and I'll fucking well email her myself.

Go ninja!

Well done. You've told her, face-to-face and when she turned up unexpectedly so you weren't prepared, where to go. You've done it once. You can do it again. And again.

We are proud of you.

This P is a scary lady?

Let me get this right. P wants you to sell your land to her friend, then give her and your bother the money?

Your dealing with an Anti-Social con lady.

Fucking bloody hell!!! How very fucking dare she ambush you like that then tell you you are not entitled to see your own brother. Doesn't that tell you everything, Ninja? THIS IS ALL ABOUT HER NOT YOUR BROTHER. She has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, there is no doubt about that. Read the link I sent you yesterday, she'll be there in black and white.

Re the land, some very astute person yesterday thought Cruella (sorry, but that image keeps coming up in my mind) might be getting a kickback or interest in the land, should you sell it for the paltry sum offered by her friend. I am now in no doubt that this is the case. There is an ulterior motive here. Your brother is just one of her pawns, she feeds off him - whether that is by status or actual financial handouts - and she needs you to give money to him to continue to feed off him. IT'S HER SUPPLY THAT'S BEEN CUT OFF TOO, NOT JUST YOUR BROTHER'S. What next after this land? Your house? She will bleed you dry and see you on the street if you let her.

NO AMOUNT OF MONEY WILL HELP YOUR BROTHER, PLEASE FOR GODSSAKE DO NOT GIVE HIM A PENNY.

Please, please, please send Panda's letter asap. I'm so glad you got away for the weekend, just keep looking at those lovely DC and remember, there will be no weekends in Wales, no nothing for those kids if you give in. STAY STRONG, LOVE, HUNDREDS OF WOMEN (IF NOT THOUSANDS) ARE ABSOLUTELY ON YOUR SIDE HERE. KEEP COMING BACK FOR SUPPORT X

OK, been reading this thread in part through my fingers (really worried Ninja will cave, so hoping she doesn't!) and the rest of me in utter shock at the gall of this bitch-cow-from-Hell.

Ninja, you've been strong so far, please don't let yourself (or your DC) down by giving an inch - this woman and her DS will bleed you dry if you waver!

Sound advice from shoutyhamster and kungfupanda, please stick to your guns!

OOH, I like happygilmore's how about an en masse email campaign telling Cruella to fuck the fuck off and then screw herself once she's got there.

I am so angry.

Your bother also needs to get away from P.

He should start a fresh and get his sanity back.

OP, sorry I called you "love" then, I get a bit northern when I'm emotional.

Absolutely, Animation but it is not incumbent upon Ninja to get him away from her. I think your analogy of this situation to a cult is spot on. But I fear the OP is too close to the cult and its beliefs to be able to intervene with her brother.

your dbs dm doesn't seem to give a shit about him frankly.

How crass that her opinion is money=love. You will not shoulder any more debt, this, to her, equates to washing your hands of him? What of emotional support? Which is what he needs now. If he is in such fragile a mental state as is insinuated then i think she would do better to forget the financial aspects of his life and deal with his mental health. Accept his business failure, and help him through his depression, be there for him.

As it is shes arranging family meetings, ie putting MORE presssure on him, Deserting him, excluding his family and apparantly encouraging delusions that his business still has a chance. Shes a manipulative shrew and your best well away.

Well done Ninja - you are doing terribly well to have shown that nightmare that you are not just going to roll over. Also, getting away from it all was an excellent idea. If she is so desperate to help her son financially, she can bloody well re-mortgage her own house!! Screw your courage to the sticking place and take heart that your dad is on your side. Ooh and do take notice of what Insolvency said with regards to getting too involved in the business - you don't want any professional problems as a result. You did your bit (and now have a massive debt, thanks very much) so its time for someone else to take over. Courage - we are all behind you!

Kalinda - I agree. Ninja must save herself.

I'm beginning to see that the brother's 'depression' is related to this cult family. Giving him money will keep him tied to them - when he should be trying to escape.

This P lady is a real arch manipulator - she has no shame!

I actually can't believe how vile this woman sounds.

She is no good for your brother, she really isn't.

You did the right thing by going away, and I really think it's time to send the email.

Ninja I've just read this through, your posts and a few in between and I am in tears at your last post.
You're not allowed to know how he is?
This is crazy.

It's time to tell P flat out that you will not discuss your DB's finances with anyone but him. SHe is attention seeking and being overly dramatic. She is clearly unhinged and has a warped sense of entitlement. Stop giving her anything, including your attention.

Wales. Nice. Enjoy!

She showed up with the person she wants to buy the land?! Did s/he conveniently have 75K in a suitcase in the car, 'just in case'? And then not tell you how your brother is?! FFS, the GALL of this woman is staggering.

Stay strong ninja!