AIBU to tell my brother to stick himself?

[fallenninja]

OK so brief background. about 10 years ago my DB got himself into a quite sticky financial mess. He had what should have been a very profitable business but he kept "borrowing" money to fund his and his DWs lifestyle. Cue massive debts, and verge of bankruptcy.

I very luckily had a house with a fair whack of equity in it, due to inheritance / buying cheaply when my parents divorced. With a whole host of conditions and reservations and following massive conversations I agreed for DB to raise a loan secured on my house (idiot) in order for him to sort this out. This was for £150k (i know even bigger idiot). Arrangement was simple. DB repaid the loan, over the 20years that it was for. DB didnt. Massive family falling out. I ended up remortgaing and obviously am now and will be forever paying the stupid loan off.

Over the last 5 years or so we seem to have repaired the family rift, and whilst it still galls me, I suppose in some ways ive let it go.

So now ...
DB yet again has got himself in a mess, there is to be a family meeting tonight to dicuss how to help him. Hes in a deep depression, his wife has left him (money issues - he can no longer keep her to the style she expects) and he obviously is in debt again. He tried to commit sucide last weekend.

Now obviously i am concerned about him, I love him, and dont want anything terrible to happen to him, but i have no interest in helping him financially or in any big commited way, which is where the disagreement is coming in.

Suggestion 1. I have a parcel of land which I know a builder would purchase to develop, so option is that I sell my plot of land, give the money to DB, and then his mum/DB will pay me a monthly sum up and until the value is met (including interest), so Ive not lost out as such.

Suggestion 2. DB IVAs and we as a family help him with the payments and also with the running of his business, I as an accountant seem to have been signed up for the massive brunt of this. Set up budgets/monitor expenditure/blah blah blah. However I know my brother and he wont pay any attention to me saying no, so i think it wont work

However if he did do something stupidly stupid because I didnt help i would struggle to forgive myself, but this is how i got guilted persuaded to help last time

So AIBU to say get lost? Or is DBs mum in asking me to consider this?

(Im off on the school run then popping to town, so shall return at lunch for the verdict)

Or ill fall asleep reading DS a story and not update until now!!

Basically, I did not attend the family meeting. This has resulted in the family meeting being postponed. According to my dad, P feels it is important that DB understands that everyone is "there for him", and my absence from the meeting might make him think "i dont care". DB has his physch appointment today, so will see what comes out of that.

I spoke briefly to DB last night, he sounds awful, not really very coherent, and is just mumbling about how he has screwed everything up and hes sorry. P then took the phone off him!

I have been subjected to a great bit guilt trip of not being their for DB, and me being the only person in the financial position to help clear this up. I We could pay off the creditors, close the business, and give DB a fresh start which must make it easier for him to deal with the mental issues, because I am obviously too selfish to put myself out to run it for him. The £150k was me part giving DB his inheritance and a part gift. The understanding was for him to pay it back if he could!
I am on an extremely good wage more than her and if the situations were reversed everyone would be bending over backwards to help me. If DBs business were running well it could help her everyone. Dad and his care costs, me and my court case, etc etc. She seems really angry that I am not in a mess, but that DB is, and I cant understand why. I just kept repeating, I wont talk about it right now cos ive got to sort the DC out,but lets wait and see what is said tomorrow. It ended with me putting the phone down on her mid rant us agreeing to disagree for now.

What I dont understand is, she has always been really nice to me and yougner DB. She was like a really close member of the family, and I dont understand why shes gone like this. I hate conflict, and I really dont want another family rift caused over this, more for dad and the DC than myself.

Im so upset about it all .. im flippen shaking as I type this.

Oh how absolutely awful for you.

They obviously want you there to "talk you round" don´t they?

OK, so they now think that the 150,000 was not to be paid back.

(How is it an inheritance before someone has died & left it to you?)

I think that you have to repeat that you cannot give anymore money, and will not go to a meeting to be bullied by them.

Your brother is free to call on you for emotional/practical(?) support, but not financial.

Could I just ask, why can´t he move in with his mum?

Could I also just ask why you are the only one who can help?

Hasn´t anyone else got a property to remortgage-as you have already done?

Why can't he just go bankrupt like everyone else does when they have no money.

She has stopped being nice because you have stopped playing the game.

You are actually going to give in aren't you? I can tell from the tone of your posts.

You are going to throw money at a problem that money cannot solve in order to not feel like the bad guy.

Don't be upset, be fucking angry, these people view you as a cashpoint, the cash has dried up so the gloves are off, hopefully you will see that before they bleed you completely dry.

As someone said, £150k could have paid for two sets of private school/university fees and instead you gave it to your brother to piss away.

Don't be stupid, don't be blackmailed, put your kids first and stop letting them push you around.

"my dad, P feels it is important that DB understands that everyone is "there for him", and my absence from the meeting might make him think "i dont care"

This really is one of the ultimate manipulations - guilting you that you don't CARE enough.

I just wish you could say NO, that doesn't work on me - so bloody stop of it!

But still do not give any money......stay firm.....it seems like you are wavering .....make your family see that your db has to be made bankrupt if necessary. He is a big boy and clearly has stuck two fingers up at you after his last bailout. Family can be shit at making you feel guilty and selfish but you are not. Your immediate family must come first.

Heaven forbid if your kid got sick and you did not have money to get medical treatment quickly as you had bailed your selfish twat of a brother out. How would you feel then?

So to answer points:

I dont have a DP.

He could live with his mum, but she moans about it, and Im not sure it would be good for DB either. I dont really know if I want him her, as yet another person to look after, but I would do it.

Thank you for everyone with the support about if he does do something its not my fault. I am really concerned about it, and I did think that I might get some people telling me I was being unreasonable! Because DBs mum is so convinced that I am, she convinces me IFYSWIM?

It was DBs wifes mum who was in the house with him. Basically, he remortgaged the equity in his house to use as a deposit on the buy to let house, which is not in his name, and because his wife wont let her parents know hes in a mess, they cant ask about borrowing money on that house. Of course neither can his creditors if he goes bankrupt. So there is a plus side.

I am going to try and stay strong on this. I need to keep my focus on keeping a home from myself, the DC and my dad. Its a struggle enough as it is! I literally have £3.57 each month left!

Morloth - Yes, I think the OP has really bought into this powerful family manipulation - do it their way - or you're not a CARING person.

The OP hates to be thought of as uncaring.

She isn't uncaring - that's just a manipulation to coerce her.

I thought you were on an extremely good wage so how come you have less than £4 left each month?

Also, why is it his wife´s decision what to tell her parents?

Everyone is an adult aren´t they?

WTF does she think her parents will do??!!

They´ll either help, or not, surely?

Please don't give in. Bankruptcy/insolvency is the answer to your brothers problems, a chance to clean the slate. Paying off creditors with money he doesn't have in order to close the business with a bit more grace is just nuts.

The core problem is his depression, that is what needs to be treated. Show me a psychiatrist who will sit down and say "Well, the answer to your problem DB of fallenninja, is voluntary insolvency, rather than court ordered insolvency, if that happens, truly my work here is done, and everything will be better"

The debts and the money are such a horrible distraction from the real issue, it is actually making me a little bit angry that somewhere out there in real life, there is some evil person, using her sons attempted suicide to squeeze money out of those who care for him.

You do care for him, you are trying to be there in these difficult times, and someone is trying to use this love and concern as a way to get cash. That's it, I'm gathering a posse.

I am wavering, but I will not cave! I have put a post it note on my mirror how daft and it says "just tell her no".

diddl No DBs is mortgaged to hilt. My mum has one, but she says thats mine & younger DBs inheritance, and shes not giving it to older B. Dad lives with me. DBs mum lives in rented property.

Animation He could and he should, but his wife will leave him not come back to him as she already seems to have dropped him like a hot potato

If you have so little left each month how can you even consider financially supporting him?

Cook I am. But my mortgage is £1200 per month. It was £500 before I remortgaged for DBs loan gift

Hi ninja, ive watched your story, i think that she has been nice whilst it could benefit her. Keeping you on side whilst you are potentially useful iyswim. The 150grand was not part gift. YOU got no inheritance, why should he? You paid for your property. So if they want to argue that the 150was inheritance, wtf did you have to pay for your share?!
Your Dbs mental health Will Not be improved or easier to deal with if you help. Its like stiking a plaster over a broken leg and hoping it will heal. h e has to accept the realities facing him, and hopefully move forward and restore his health. He is Not going to help himsrlf until His mum backs off. The pressure she is putting on you os also on him. Does she noyt think that this meeting mightn't make him feel supported, but rather pressured. You dont have to gather as a family in one room surrounding him demanding. Answers and solutions for His terrible problems to support him. If you offer love and unswrstanding singularly then i tgink that would be less intense, and more help to him, if Not her.

Oh and im sorry it should say £30.57! That is after mortgage, bills, DCs activities, Money into their trust funds. So its not like im hand to mouth as such, and also Im paying my solicitor, which is actually all my spare money as it was each month. Shes cost my £20k over the last 3 years, and its currently showing no sign of stopping!

Once court if ever finishes, I shall be well off again.

How can the £150k possibly be inheritance/gift when you had to borrow it?! It was money you didn't have.

Stay strong and remember that lots of people have replied to this thread and the only person who thinks you are being unreasonable is DBs mum who is the person who has a vested interest. Coincidence?

This is madness. Is this woman usually this much of a cow? What's she done for your brother's financial situation anyway? Does she think you have a little coin-shaped slot in your back?

"I am going to try and stay strong on this"

Yes, you stay strong and know your own mind and what's right. You seem to fragment around the family's powerful projections.

Look after you're own sanity first.

To be honest I'd be so angry that they all thought it was fine for you to be paying an extra £700 a month in your mortgage I would tell them all to fuck off. I seriously could not have a relationship with them . They're using you and it doesn't sound like they give a shit about you. It's not fair on you or your kids that you're in this position. Your financial well being has been affected for the rest of your life because of him. How dare they come back and ask for more. I doubt you'll see any inheritance from your step mothers house when she dies. She s saying that to make you think you'll get something in the end but shell leave it all to your db. I'm sure he is sounding awful at the minute, he will be making sure he sounds as bad as he can when he talks to you. Do you really want to carry on having a relationship with these people?

fallenninja I've been lurking since you first posted, and while I have no useful advice to give I just wanted to say please don't give in to the pressure from your family. As others have said, they've turned up the guilt because they've realised that you aren't going to fall in line.

Talking to a lawyer about tying up the land in trust for your DC sounds like a very good idea.

Take a step back for a few days - switch your phone to answerphone and screen all your calls. If you don't talk to them they can't pressure you.

Stay strong and invoke the power of the Panda/Hamster/Smurf etc

Fallenninja - the reality is - he IS bankrupt. If he loses his wife over that fact - then so be it. It will be hard but he will get over over it. She is a BIG part of his depression anyway.