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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Husband of a friend telling off my child

799 replies

900cherry · 19/06/2011 23:16

I was invited out this morning with some neighbours who are good friends. The husband is known to be snappy and to have little patience with his own children.
In the space of an hour, he told my 4 year old daughter to 'stop whining' and in a cafe, he snapped at her to 'OI, STOP THAT' when she kicked him under the table ( she was doing it playfully). My daughter burst into tears and came and sat on my lap. When his wife, who is a good friend, commented to him to calm down, he agressively responded 'Its not my problem if she's crying cos I told her off for not kicking me. She can deal with it'.

She is 4.

I said nothing as I didn't want to upset his wife, who I know was mortified.

I really want to email him tomorrow to tell him how inappropriate and uncalled for it was. AIBU? What would you do?

PS. The ironic thing is, he has an obnoxious daughter who is really badly behaved and I say nothing!

OP posts:
Animation · 20/06/2011 09:12

CareyHunt - I agree.

Firm and kind is the best way to talk to a 4 year old.

An angry humiliating voice just belittles a child.

uselesscamhs · 20/06/2011 09:14

OP If you already know what this man is like why didn't you take some pre-emtive action to avoid this sort of thing happening to your DS ???

Like sitting her right next to you so you could see exactly what she was doing

Being more vigilant about her behaviour

intervening earlier than you usually would

Animation · 20/06/2011 09:15

Assertive = firm and kind

Aggressive = angry and humiliatiing

fuckmepinkandcallmerosie · 20/06/2011 09:16

I'm intrigued now.

How is the husband "known" to be snappy and have little patience with his own children? Who has decided this? And on what evidence?

How can your DD adore a snappy bad tempered arse? If he was like that all the time she'd have little time for him in my experience, kids are good at sussing people out.

Jackin · 20/06/2011 09:17

Yeah we only have the op to stand for that. And of course she'll be biased. (understandably)

bubblecoral · 20/06/2011 09:18

Why are posters saying that the man shouldn't have spoken angrily? Confused

I don't get it.

Anger is a natural emotion and it does children no harm at all to be exposed to it. At the nursery I work at we tell children who are misbehaving that their reactions are likely to make us/another child angry. We actually point out the look on angry people's faces and the tone of angry peoples voices to make the children aware that they are making someone angry. Children need to recognise that emotion so that they learn that doing something that is likely to make people angry is not the way to behave.

Obviously we wouldn't shout at a child, but we will say (in a stern tone of voice) 'listen to my voice, how do you think that behaviour has made me feel?' They learn that they have crossed a line, and there is no more to it than that. The children know that they have gone too far if a teacher says that or points out their anger without any further need to discipline them in any other way.

Children feel anger themselves, and they need to deal with that. How are they supposed to learn to cope with such a strong emotion when they experience it if they are never allowed to see the adults around them get angry and deal with it? They won't is the simple answer. And then they get angry and don't know how to control it or deal with it because the adults around them appear never to get angry so it can actually scare them to feel that strongly.

I firmly believe that children should learn that bad behaviour can make people angry and shouty, or upset and tearful. All in a controlled age appropriate manner obviously, but it does children no favours whatsoever to be led to believe that people don't get angry with them no matter what they do.

tyler80 · 20/06/2011 09:19

cheerfulyank the I'm not American quote refers to the use of 'full stop' rather than 'period'

It's not a slur on American parents/children Grin

Pictish · 20/06/2011 09:20

I had a very similar situation a couple of years back with a friend - not an especially close one, but still.

Her little son aged four kept 'playfully' hitting my nervous dog. My friend did the whole 'now darling....don't do that' ineffectual bollocks before explaining he was 'only playing'. I explained in return that as the dog was nervous, he was also unpredictable, and I would hate for her lad to get bitten.

Later on he was 'playfully' hitting the dog again, so I'm afraid I grabbed his arm, pulled him round to face me and told him 'Do NOT hit my dog again! He will BITE YOU!' in a rather cross and determined fashion. I did raise my voice, yes.

The lad cried while his mother comforted him and shot me shocked and dismayed looks. I didn't give a toss. She'd have been a damn sight more shocked and dismayed if my dog had decided to sink his teeth into her child!!

I have not had her or her son back since. I don't care. I do not open my doors to children who hit or kick...playfully or not - particularly when the parents in question are loathe to discipline, and then make ME out to be the baddie when I step in.

My own kids (two of which are younger than my friend's son) all knew to be gentle and careful with the dog, so it's not as if being 4 is anything to do with it.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 20/06/2011 09:21

All very well to say that you'll 'be the one to do it', OP, but you didn't, did you?

The way people treat children hasn't actually changed, in my view, but the way some parents now expect their children to be treated by other adults has changed beyond all recognition.

When I was a kid, there were grumpy adults and there were 'soft' ones. We didn't mess about with the grumpy ones because the line was drawn... we did with the soft ones though and often crossed the line. Kicking at 4 years old is unbelieveable... Confused

It is up to you to fit your daughter for society, not to try to bend other people to accept your daughter's poor behaviour. Other people will not accept our childrens' bad behaviour and either we discipline our children - or accept that they'll be 'told off' by others - or we don't inflict our children on society, keeping them surrounded by people who will not teach them anything of use for adult life.

Live and learn, OP, we all have to and we all make mistakes as we go. I'd apologise to 'Mr Grumpy', your daughter was wrong to kick... perhaps it would make him a little ashamed at his snappyness to a young child. Don't let it ruin your relationship with your friend. :)

Ivortheengine8 · 20/06/2011 09:22

Bubble - and thats how I would expect my DC's to be told if they were at school or nursery. I would hope that the teachers know what they are doing and will help her learn right from wrong. If they are in the teacher's classroom it's the teachers rules and if I trust the teachers I would not be worried in the slightest.

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/06/2011 09:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bubblecoral · 20/06/2011 09:31

Thank you Ivor! I was waiting to be told that people would never send their children to me to be looked after if that's what I did!

But it works. Little people like to please adults, especially if they get lots of praise for the good stuff they do. They generally don't like feeling that they have made one of us angry, and the thought that they have is more than enough to make them stop and think about it, as long as it is made clear to them exactly what it is that they have done to cause the anger. Usually just telling them in a firm tone 'if you continue to do that now that I have told you not to, I'm going to get angry' is more than enough.

nannyl · 20/06/2011 09:33

YABU

agree with stewie

i wouldnt let ANY 4 year old kick me, regardless of wether their parents were there or not.
i hope you made her apologise to your friends DH? rather than giving her sympathy!

Ivortheengine8 · 20/06/2011 09:37

:) you're welcome Bubble.
I came from a 'slipper' family which I do not wish on any child nor would I use on my own children but it didn't do me any harm. I think children get confused with all the wishy washy stuff.

exoticfruits · 20/06/2011 09:38

The point is Animation, that you have no control over how someone interacts with your DC, other than never letting them have contact again. She can send an email outlining how she expects someone to speak to her DC but he can just say 'rubbish-I will do it my way'. Once someone becomes a mother they think they can control everyone who comes into contact with their DC and they can't. It does DCs no harm to know that everyone is different.

exoticfruits · 20/06/2011 09:39

The whole point was it worked! The DC will not kick near him again-the result he wanted.

Pictish · 20/06/2011 09:40

I agree Exotic.

fuckmepinkandcallmerosie · 20/06/2011 09:43

I don't get this "no one is allowed to speak severely to my kids" stuff.

Maybe it's because I'm old but I wouldn't expect to sit at a table with a child kicking my ankle and the mother sitting beside me, and not say something.

Kick kick kick kick - looks at mother she does nothing - kick kick kick kick - "oi you stop that it hurts"

I don't get the issue, I really don't. And I can't be that grumpy and bad tempered because my house is always full of other peoples children.

prettybird · 20/06/2011 09:44

YABU.

I have no problem with other adults telling off my ds (or other kids) if they are doing something wrong - and "playfully" kicking someone comes into that category of it was persistent and/or hurt.

It's part of parcel of living in society.

ThisIsJustASagaNow · 20/06/2011 09:45

Another YABU.

(Maybe the 'OI, STOP THAT' was just him being 'playful' backGrin)

4 yr olds are quite able to understand that kicking people playfully or otherwise gets an unfriendly and then they think twice about doing it again.

meltedchocolate · 20/06/2011 09:45

If he shouted very aggressively then I agree, that was wrong. Firmly and sharply telling a kicking four year old off is fine though in my opinion. Me and my best friend tell off each others children. Who ever is closest or who has seen the incident will discipline. I see no problem with telling off someone else's child if they are not dealing with it. You didn't see OP so he dealt with it for you. (hopefully not too harshly) I find it odd that she burst into tears. No matter how loud it was, why is she so sensitive to discipline? Why did you cuddle her afterwards? She had been naughty. You should have calmly explained that kicking was not OK and she was to apologise to this man. She could have done that through the tears. He would have said 'OK' or some equivalent and all would have been fine. I don't understand why you gave her this attention and made it seem as if she was not in the wrong.

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/06/2011 09:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThisIsJustASagaNow · 20/06/2011 09:46

'unfriendly response'

cory · 20/06/2011 09:47

This child presumably will be starting school in the autumn. Am I the only one feeling vaguely concerned for the teacher who judging by some posters might be expected to be kicked by 30 children and still be expected to respond playfully and without any intimation of her real feelings? And never to discipline in any way any individual child is not used to because that is too upsetting... Hmm

Ivortheengine8 · 20/06/2011 09:48

Fuckme, it's not because you are old, I am 31 and I agree, so do many other on here. Even if you are old we should have respect for the ageing population!
What happened to respecting our elders? I think its daft how we don't anymore. Older people generally have a lot of teach us and have a lot more knowledge and experience of life than those of us in the younger generation.