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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to resent getting parenting advice from mumsnetters who are not actually mums?

180 replies

sweetuphoria · 16/06/2011 18:52

Ok preparing myself for a barage of abuse here, this is something that annoys me in RL as well as Mumsnet...

Those people who are very forceful in their opinion about how to raise a child when they have none of their own. I mean I will admit I thought I knew kids until I had one of my own and then I realised how completely different it is looking after someone else's to having your own 24/7. Sorry but those without kids have NO IDEA!

OP posts:
Bucharest · 17/06/2011 08:01

emptyshell- there is a lot of precious fuckwittage around on here.

Strange though I may be, I prefer a qualified teacher to make decisions about my child's education, a qualified doctor to make decisions about her health.....I do the getting-the-dinner-in and getting-the-clothes-on but I am not egotistical enough to see my child as my project or fiefdom as some seem to. I think it says a lot about people's basic insecurities tbh

I hope you get your child soonest. Smile

RustyBear · 17/06/2011 08:12

Agree with emptyshell - I've worked in schools for 15 years so I've seen a lot of teachers in action - some of the very best had no children, some of the worst did - you cannot possibly generalise like that.

And, troisgarcons, even if you didn't mean to give offence, your reply when you knew you had was just nasty - would it actually have hurt you to say 'sorry if you were upset', realising that not everyone reacts the same way you do - instead you are actually proud of being harsh.

Hope you don't leave emptyshell Sad

Bucharest · 17/06/2011 08:14

troisgarcons, are you (and the OP) happy now that thanks to your crassness non-parent MNers are feeling they should leave the site?

IWantToBeAFairyWhenIGrowUp · 17/06/2011 08:16

OP - I think you are being a little bit U, however to take nursery/school teachers etc, those people, even if childless, have more experience than me.

Being a parent doesn't automatically make you an expert in childcare, it just means you are an expert with your own child/ren.

I'm just a stubborn old bag and take no advice from anyone as of course I know best Grin.

TattyDevine · 17/06/2011 08:16

Emptyshell (hi haven't seen you around much lately!) - I don't think the OP was talking about "people like you" anyway, chick. I really don't think she was talking about teachers posting about school/education or children in the context of school, etc...I honestly think she meant the people who don't have children but who might say something like "I'll never let my child try McDonalds, even if there is a birthday party there, he can bring his own hummus and pitta and carrot sticks, but I probably won't associate with people like that anyway" kind of bollocks.

Even the teachers with no children saying silly things was probably more about a teacher who says something like "why don't you put him to bed an hour earlier then he'll sleep an hour longer" and giving a tilty head and eyerollwhen the mother says "but it doesn't work that way". This kind of thing does happen out there in "real life".

I don't see why you should go just because someone has said they don't value the opinion of someone that isn't you anyway. If Mumsnet is really able to upset you, and I can see that you are, then you will probably feel stronger and more empowered (wanky expression alert) if you take them on and reject their opinions right back at them than to scuttle away.

Don't let them put you off. You like it here. We like you here. I always look out for your posts. Stick around.

Blackduck · 17/06/2011 08:18

Actually IWant I am not even sure I am an epert with my own child :)
Best person I knew was my best friend - no children, but an absolute fantastic person with the children she taught and my ds...

AngelsOnHigh · 17/06/2011 08:29

You don't have to know how to make a watch to tell time Grin

fraktious · 17/06/2011 08:33

emptyshell don't go. I let people bully me off the site in about 2005 for not having children despite working in childcare. I came back a couple of years later still childless but it still rankles that I actually listened to those people. And despite what anyone else says you are a mother, but a mother in the hardest possible situation because some people won't acknowledge you as one.

lesley33 · 17/06/2011 08:41

If you think of it logically, yes you would think that you have to have children to be able to give good advice about parenting. But in reality there are lots of people who give good advice and that parents listen to, who haven't had children. Thousands of parents for example follow the advice of supernanny and the naughty step, in spite of her not having children.

I also think it can be easier with any situation from the outside to see going wrong. What you don't get from the outside is an understanding of how difficult it may be to put that advice into practice. But parents can lack this understanding as easily as those who aren't parents. Especially parents who have had 1 easy child.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 17/06/2011 08:42

I liked MsTeak's post about taking good advice from wherever it's offered. I really agree with that. None of us are going to have the exact same experience and at the end of it all, aren't we just trying to do our best for our DCs, parents, siblings, grandparents, etc.?

One thing I don't like about any forum is that when somebody posts something as troisgarcon did, it wasn't aimed at anybody yet some posters take it on themselves to project it on their own situation and berate somebody for their opinion. I feel desperately sorry for anybody in pain, who has or is going through trauma in their lives but it's really unfair to start 'slamming doors' for someone's view and making their comment all about you when it wasn't.

GreenTeapot · 17/06/2011 09:32

There's a massive gaping void between those who offer advice on stuff they genuinely know nothing about (think pregnant friend advising you that your colicking baby is this way because you're not relaxed enough), and those who offer advice on things they have expertise in (so, a teacher offering a suggestion to help deal with challenging behaviour). YAB wildly U to think that the act of producing/rearing a child gives you unique insights into every child. Do those of you with pets ask whether your vet has the same species at home before paying your bill?

coproxamol · 17/06/2011 09:39

I think what the OP was trying to say is that, yes, if you ask for advice from a non parent, then that's your choice. It's when you have a non parent saying stuff like "can't you control that child, stop her screaming, having a meltdown, etc?"
If I want advice, from whoever, then I will ask, I don't want it foisted onto me whilst I am trying to get round the supermarket with 3 DCs, especially from some smug one basket non parent.

RustyBear · 17/06/2011 09:44

Lyingwitch - it wasn't so much troisgarcons original post that was offensive - though it was a pretty daft generalisation -it was the later 'I'm not going to apologise for your medical problems' - would it really have been so hard for her to say - 'I really didn't mean the original post in the way you've taken it - I'm sorry if you were upset'
Instead she seemed to take pleasure in a reply which she admitted was 'harsh' I know mumsnet is renowned for 'harsh' advice which is for the poster's own good, but how on earth was that post supposed to do any good to anyone?

JudysJudgement · 17/06/2011 09:45

Do those of you with pets ask whether your vet has the same species at home before paying your bill?

no but i do find that the ones who do generally have a better understanding of their behaviour than those who have read a book about it :)

however thats not the same as a childless teacher knowing about kids behaviour as they are with the kids 6 hours a day - the vet isnt with the animal all day every day and if he was, he would have greater understanding

solareclipse · 17/06/2011 09:47

Are there now more non-parents than parents on MN? What are the stats?

OurPlanetNeptune · 17/06/2011 09:55

OP, YABU. I have 3 DS and have received some wonderful advice from childless people. I have also received some rubbish advice from parents.

FiremanSamantha I agree with your friend. If I gave my boys all those choices chaos would ensue. They wouldn't even dream of kicking off because they have been taught not be spoilt brats.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 17/06/2011 09:57

RustyBear... I agree that troisgarcons' post was a bit harsh but to be fair, emptyshell made her point in her OP and then again in response to a non-offensive post from troisgarcons that was't directed at her at all, perhaps troisgarcons hadn't seen emptyshell's second post whilst typng hers. Other posters sympathised with emptyshell and they weren't even acknowledged, emptyshell was angry with troisgarcons and seemed to just be fixated on that. Fair's fair.

Yes, trois' post was 'direct' and a bit unkind but I think she's a direct sort of a poster. The only thing to do really is 'not post' to posters that offend you. If everybody felt that way and stopped responding to a 'hard' poster, they'd change their style or find another forum. That's how a forum regulates itself, I think.

I personally think there's a fair bit of attention-seeking that goes on on MN as with any forum and the other thread bears that out. Everybody has control of what they post.

inspireme · 17/06/2011 09:59

I think the problem is mum's would hate to get advice from a non parent and for it to actually work- it's probably a pride thing, in that they then feel like and inadequate parent- surely any help would be appreciated be it from a parent or non parent!

and being a parent doesn't actually make u an expert anyway- there are plenty of rubbish parents out there too!

ZXEightyMum · 17/06/2011 10:01

I think it depends. DD did as she was told and I never gave her choices
whereas I have to say to DS, "this (food / item of clothing) or that one" as it would be a flat no otherwise. By giving a simple choice he seems to understand that no isn't an option and that he has to eat or wear something.

But then he is autistic so perhaps that it a factor. Seems to work for him although it took me years to find that out as I didn't believe in it either.

Allinabinbag · 17/06/2011 10:05

My own view is that I would go to a professional for advice on specific expertise, and they may have developed that expertise in the context of having their own children or from years of working with children (e.g. teacher, midwife, nurse or doctor, child psychologist). Either way, they are usually experienced enough to give good advice (or at least the bad advice is not limited to non-parents). The problem often comes when you get an inexperienced trainee, say, who doesn't have children. I had a trainee midwife like that and she was just awful, she simply had no idea what it was like to give birth (so kept saying completely daft things) and hadn't enough experience of watching others to realise how daft she sounded. With a few more years of experience, she may have been great. I was thinking of that lovely, slightly old-fashioned midwife on One Born Every Minute who didn't have children but had made midwifery her vocation, she was just so reassuring.

However, there's a big difference in getting advice from a teacher on behavioural issues, say, and those times you want a sympathetic ear or someone to empathise, in those situations, someone who has been through a similar experience is great as you are starting from the same starting point.

So, to me, it's about how much experience the person has (regardlesss of having given birth or not), what type of person they are anyway, and what you want from the situation (being told your child is hyperactive when they are just a normal two year old running around on the beach, for example, is just what you don't need from a childless relative, however you may be delighted to get a formal diagnosis of hyperactivity if you needed one from a consultant who didn't have children themselve but a wealth of experience).

RustyBear · 17/06/2011 10:23

troisgarcons quoted emptyshell's second post, so she must have seen it!
If you mean she hadn't seen emptyshell's first post, then you may be right, they were only three minutes apart, but just because they were so close, troisgarcons' post could easily be taken as a reference to emptyshell's.
I'm not saying it was meant personally, but I still can't see why she then had to be so nasty in her reply - why couldn't she just have said, 'sorry, cross-post, I wasn't being personal, sorry you're upset'

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 17/06/2011 10:28

RustyBear... Agree with you that it was unnecessary. I wondered if Troisgarcons felt 'attacked' herself and responded with that. It wasn't a kind post and it would definitely have been better left unsaid.

I don't know. I just find it very often here at the moment, somebody makes a comment on any subject and somebody else comes along, 'tweaks' the subject and applies the OP to themselves as if they've been attacked. I personally find that quite attention-seeking - and annoying.

MissMap · 17/06/2011 10:29

That reminds me of when I was pregnant and I had a midwife who told me that she would not have children because it was too scarey. I thought she was scarey.
Skips off to make other irrelevant comments elsewhere.

megapixels · 17/06/2011 10:51

Bit of YABU and NBU. It depends on the giver of advice I think. Childless people who keep criticising and offering unsolicited smuggety smug advice when it's clear they know nothing about the practicalities of being a parent, I have no tolerance for. But other childless people who might give some well-meaning advice now and then, even if said advice is questionable, I listen and then put it out of my mind because I know their intentions are good.

Some parents are quite capable of holding their own with the childless in giving stupid advice too. When we were on holiday my friend kept insisting that my daughter needed antibiotics for her mosquito bites, even though I'd taken DD to my brother in law, a doctor, who prescribed only a topical cream. She seemed to seriously think that I should go with her medical advice instead Hmm.

Jux · 17/06/2011 11:32

I don't mind hearing advice from anyone. It's when they expect me to follow it to the letter, or want gratitude I get pissed off (particularly as sometimes they should be grateful to me for listening to their bollocks! - that's in RL btw, not anyone here.)