...to ask what you think of this new breastfeeding video?

[clitorisorclitoraint]

I found it a tadge patronising.

You?

I don't usually post on these threads - it's all been done before, but Studentmadwife, please, please, go back to your textbooks. your naivity is breathtaking. You seem to believe that all, all, ALL women can breastfeed, if only they had the right support/encouragement/enthusiasm. That simply is not true. I can't, for the life of me, think about what additional support/encouragement I could have been given, which would have made a difference. And I didn't FF because I was too silly to understand the benefits of BF, or because I'm shy/badly educated/lazy. And I didn't choose it.
Some women just can't physically do it. Fact.

As for the often trotted out stats about how marvellous breastfeeding rates are in mainland Northern Europe, I'd be very interested in looking at the source data. If it's anything like the collation that goes on here, they're pretty worthless. I had to correct my GPs three ted on my BF status with my DS - I was down as Ff as they assumed I wouldn't be BF after 6onths. I BF for 13 months but that's not reflected in the stats and I fail to see why other countries would be so much more accurate in their data collecting.

To clarify, BF DS for 13 months, 7 exclusively, and BF twins for 7 weeks.

"I will never hide behind the truth"

studentmidwife - please listen to what everyone is saying. I breastfed for 13 months. I say that not to get a medal but in the hope that it will make you more likely to listen to me. You should know that tiktok is a breastfeeding counsellor as well - have another look at her post, she has dealt with hundreds of women with problems, here and in RL.

I found breastfeeding very, very easy. No pain apart from painful letdown in the first week or so, and slightly sore nipples as they got used to the pressure. That was it. I am one end of the spectrum, and some of the people on this thread are on the other.

When you are dealing with women in real life, you will come across some you are unable to help. Who really, really want to breastfeed but for whatever reason, it is not coming together, who have painful boobs / mastitis and who are very close to the edge, emotionally and mentally. Please, please don't push them over. Please don't utter the words that haunt them in the middle of the night for years to come. You are supporting every aspect of being a new mother. Yes, breastfeeding is a huge part of that, but you run the risk of being the person who ruined someone's experience of new motherhood. If you are that concerned about the risk of serious food poisoning (which is very rare) perhaps concentrate on getting the women who haven't succeeded to breastfeed to make up the formula at 70 degrees, which I understand isn't often done.

My midwife wrote a lovely article for the NCT magazine about her own breastfeeding experience, after helping hundreds of women with their latch she assumed it would be a snap. It wasn't.

Ooh Holly - are we the same person?!

studentmidwife - I strongly agree with a lot of what you say, but not with the blinkered way you're saying it.

My credentials - I EBF DS until 6 months, then mixed fed him until 13 months. I am still feeding DD - she is 10 months old and has never has a drop of formula (nor will she now, in large part b/c I can't be arsed to go through the hassle of getting her to take a bottle; but I'm a SAHM who doesn't have to worry about going back to work).

You will often find me on these threads on the pro-BF side of the debate, but even I am sucking air in through my teeth as I read some of your posts. :(

It's good that you're passionate about this, but that's only a small part of the battle. I hope when you come to have your own children breastfeeding is a lovely, bonding, stress-free experience, and that you don't go through what so many other women do in getting it established.

I can only assume you don't have children yet, since you have been asked if you do several times and ignored the question every time.

Most of my family BF, my kids know from seeing me and aunts etc that you can boobie, bottle or both. If I am lucky enough to break down DH's will and have another baby become a granny, I would support my daughters in whatever they decided to do.

But I wouldn't stand by and watch them try everything but still be crying in terror at feed time just to notch up another soul for the God B'oob .

If it's true that bottle fed babies are stupid, had my mother been able to BF, I'd have been Eistein right now!

It is worth supporting bf; it is a public health issue; there are mountains of studies which do control for socio-economic factors; formula does increase the risk of a range of poorer health outcomes in the developed world as well; even women with ideal support and other conditions can find it hard/impossible to bf; individual women do have the right to choose the feeding method they want despite the possible health drawbacks, and should be supported to ff safely and rewardingly.

Part of any supporter's job is to create conditions where women can make infant feeding decisions free of concerns that they will be judged and pressured or criticised - and that includes being restrained and good mannered on talkboards, remembering you are speaking to individuals who don't like any more than anyone else to be criticised for their parenting.

It's irrelevant whether an HCP has bf or not. Some of the best bf supporters I have met and whose books I have read have never bf. It is not a pre-condition.

Lunabelle, no one sensible thinks people are made 'stupid' by being ff.

Sheesh.

TikTok - well according to the studies shown earlier it does... :)

Just WHAT is the percentage of risk though? Because were it that bad, it would be banned. Are we talking bungee jumping every day type risk or living near a busy road might increase your risk of lung cancer type risk?

Life is a risk. Being pregnant is a risk. Giving birth is a risk. Crossing the road is a risk. Intensively farmed meat versus organic is a risk...Everything we do carries risks. Many A&E admissions are caused by separating frozen burgers - but how rare is it?

I am not anti BF. I've done it, albeit topped up with FF because I plop out large babies and my stupid ugly boobs are useless.

What I am is anti this climate of fear that is woven around formula. What I am anti is the PRETENCE of supporting a woman's choice.
We birth, we feed, we do the best we can. That should be supported.
I've met MWs and HVs who, frankly, should be reported to the war crimes commision, and I've met ones who are wonderful and supportive and aces and skills. If they had any agenda they hid it well.

Now. Guess under who's care my PND was managable?

This is 2011. We now have the vote, and most of us are allowed to go out unchaperoned. We can make our family out of any combination we are happy with.

But when it comes to really supporting women in this most fundamental parenting choice or necessity...well. There's an awful lot of HCPs and family/friends who REALLY need to go back to the drawing board on this.
I'm sure we'd all love a utopia where we have the time and ability and well behaved norks or perfect health, but life isn't like that. We do what is right for us and our babies, and horror stories just make a tense time worse.

[wants to "like" Lunabelly's post]

But my experience is that everyone formula feeds. My hv told me to top up with formula! And people look at me like when I say I am bf ing a 14 month old. I would feel like a freak if I fed her in public now. Society is set up for ff. And yet breast milk is supposed to be the perfect food for your baby. I just want it to be more normal to bf beyond a couple of weeks.

xxxkxxxxx I shouldn't rise to your comment but actually I didn't give up either, not a drop anything but breastmilk till 6 months. However I fully respect those who use formula, for whatever reason. I came so close to it myself and I would have hated to feel negative judgement from others if I had ended up using it.

'I know just among my own acquaintance lots of women whose HCPs convinced them that they had a problem with breastfeeding when they didn't.'

sadly i see this all the time. i have a very petite mum who has produced the most beautiful, dainty little baby on the 0.4th centile. baby is feeding well, gaining weight slowly, because she is small, happy and content and positvely glowing with health and yet the hv is obsessed with this baby and practically standing over her with a bottle. even gp told mum to stop worrying and go home but hv wont have it. on top of this mil and sil are pretty anti bf and suggests bottles i think daily now. mum thinks shes failing even though that coudlnt be further from the turth - horrible situation!

meanwhile i meet mums all this time (2 even just this week) who think they are having problems feeding that arn't, not by any stretch.

never mind the pregnancy leaflets - they dont stand a chance against the fact that the interantionally recognised symbol for a baby is a bottle.

There is certainly as much societal pressure to bottle feed as breast feed. The new Nestle instant cow's milk machine for your kithcen marketed to the relatively well off (which does indeed look like it would save a lot of time with bottle feeding - I've always worked full time with 5 babies including twins and never fed a baby formula although I did with 3 of them express at work but I've never fed a baby from a bottle once althoug our nanny did). I think I was helped that I never considered or saw anyone bottle feeding because I'm middle class and don't anyway hang around with other mothers.

it's a very emotive subject to women. In most area of parenthood whatever your gender I think "ditching the guilt" is one of the best slogans. You wont' in the UK (althoughyou will in plenty of other countries where yo9u can't afford clean water) kill a b aby by feeding it cow's milk.

The video is pro breastfeeding although a bit silly.

I agree with TikTok & Countess - TikTok, your post was very well-reasoned.

The anecdotes go both ways you know - my friend had twins was not allowed - that's right, not allowed - to leave hospital until she'd given them each a bottle of formula. They were in the region of 6lbs and had no health problems. The midwives at the hospital (which I feel like naming and shaming, but I won't) were insistent that she could not successfully bf twins.

Well, she gave them the bottles, escaped the hospital, and then went straight back excl bf - bf both twins for a year in all - good for her!

So nobody tell me that it's all about breast - there are also stories of formula being literally forced on mothers against their will :(

Its constantly coming back to the fact that ff is forced on people and everyone can bf, they just need help to do it...when really it should come to choice...breast milk is more beneficial but ff is a suitable alternative for those who cant...by all means promote bf all you want but dont put down those who cannot do it...

BTW my experience once I gave birth was that despite my obvious deformity, despite the notes on my file and the constatnt discussions about my medications, the mw and hv still treated me like a piece of shit for not bf...

Bosco, I think that's why I found TikTok's post so reasonable - the assertion that all feeding choices should be respected. Neither you, nor my friend (my post above) should have been made to feel that way in hospital.

There is still an argument for bf promotion though - after all very powerful formula advertising is on our televisions and in our magazines constantly. Costing millions! The big formula companies obviously feel it is worth the money.

I think this is quite a big thing for bf to be up against. But how to do it? The second people either promote or celebrate bf it seems to be taken as 'against' formula feeders.

How to do it? Edit out the anti formula bits of BF promotion! For example, there was absolutely no need for the shot in this particular video of the burlesque dancer making a 'thumbs down' gesture while standing next to a cow at a dairy farm .

I take it from some of the posts above that there may also have been some anti-formula lyrics, although I couldn't tell as the diction and sound quality wasn't that great.

We have about 100 pro bottled milk stuff even in the UK to 1 pro breastfeeding because there is no money commercially in breastfeeding so I don't think we need to worry about one silly pro breastfeeding video which because of its various defects is as likely to turn anyone off breastfeeding as on to it.

I think it's a shame more women don't write about the pleasures of breastfeeding. There are a lot of us for whom not only was it mostly not a "problem" but also pleasurable too. I've had a very interesting life in all kinds of areas but one of the most special bits of it was the breastfeeding of the 5 babies including the twins.

Ok crazycat point taken about the cows, but my point in general still stands. Agree with Xenia above.

"The second people either promote or celebrate bf it seems to be taken as 'against' formula feeders."

From reading the thread, I thought people were against certain attitudes of some posters rather than the actually video.

actual*

I think it's good. Most adverts aimed at mothers portray mothers as being not necessarily dowdy or old fashioned but "sensible" I suppose. Not all mothers can relate with this. There are lot of mums in their late teens/early twenties who often feel worried about going to support groups because they think they won't be able to relate to the mums there. They think they will all be middle aged, middle class, boring and sensible. I think it's good to promote mothers can also be beautiful, sexy, confident, daring, not afraid to look a bit silly and have a laugh.

Melanie You did the video ... what point was it actually trying to put across?

nappy - thats true to osme degree but you get some brave ones. i have a mum in my gorup who is 18, baby is about 3 months i think, still at uni and still getting to lectures whislt bf, has an amazing boyfriend supporting her but i was so humbled at their coping skills at 18!!