...to ask what you think of this new breastfeeding video?

[clitorisorclitoraint]

I found it a tadge patronising.

You?

I think it is bizarre, but great!

Good on you to the women who did the video, and those who came on here to talk about it. You all look gorgeous in the video and it looks like it was fun to do. The cows could be taken in a number of ways, I thought it was just a reference to the less glamorous side of bf when you do feel like a dairy cow.

Breastfeeding discussions are always prevalent on Mumsnet, but this video can bring it to the masses of people who don't live in mumsnet world: a world where the only talk about breastfeeding is when newspapers are having a slow day and so they scan the science journals and they find one line in a dry report and turn it into HUGE OVER-INFLATED NEWS STORY. Pro-ff or pro-bf, they and their obligatory opposing responses only cause upset all round.

Any other perspective on breastfeeding; just people having a bit of a laugh whilst being a bf mother, should help the very slow crawl forward to creating a baby feeding culture where breastfeeding can be considered in a different context to the polarized bf/ff debate which doesn't help anyone really.

Sorry Xxxxxkxxxxx , I wasn't prepared to stay up all night crying in pain, or try and express milk that clearly didn't want to come out. I wasn't prepared to starve my son in pursuit of motherly perfection. I wasn't prepared to be unable to cuddle my children because of the pain.

Life is simply too short, and I was also (though I didn't know it at the time) en route to a mini breakdown what with Satan next door and our then horrific living arrangements.

You persevered, good for you. Now please take your halo, you've earned it, good job, I'm truly happy for you. :)
But for those of us who take another route, through necessity or choice, are no lesser beings than you, and nor are we poisoning our babies.

"Breastfeeding discussions are always prevalent on Mumsnet, but this video can bring it to the masses of people who don't live in mumsnet world: a world where the only talk about breastfeeding is when newspapers are having a slow day and so they scan the science journals and they find one line in a dry report and turn it into HUGE OVER-INFLATED NEWS STORY. Pro-ff or pro-bf, they and their obligatory opposing responses only cause upset all round"

W. T. F.?

studentmidwife would you accept that formula can have a place in supporting mothers, and more importantly babies, who have feeding problems?

TikTok - the novelty will never wear off for me. I will always be supporting women postnatally with thier babies, I will never hide behind the truth and always give women true research based information regarding breast and bottle feeding, ok the mcdonalds comment was a quick off the mark comment and I have apologised to anybody I have affended by that comment (even though it has some aspect of truth) but everything else I have said i stand by and is proven research evidence.

I mean the novelty of posting here will wear off , studentmidwife. I and others have been here for several years; my concern was that a 'quick off the mark comment' made by you then gets quoted back at people like me as if it is representative of people who support bf.

But you will be long gone, I bet.

I am not talking about research and evidence. I have it coming out of my ears :) I am an experienced NCT breastfeeding counsellor and I am aware of the differences between breastmilk and formula....but equally aware that all mothers deserve support and kindness, and that it is tactless and unkind to belittle formula in the way you have done - because people take it personally, and why wouldnt they?

the thing with internet forums is that they arn't representative - we all have an axe to grind otherwise we wouldn't bother.

meanwhile surely the point of ant pro bf material is to try and get new mums to consider bf and or to help normalise bf for mums already doing it.

mums who have tried bf and ceased (cant think of a more ambiguous way to describe bf ending for whatever reason) always think they are being got at by any bf propaganda. bf is a public health issue like it or not - how can bf be promoted without upsetting some mums - how? this video was pretty gentle and lighthearted imo and as for the cow pictures - well thats where formula comes from!

Like I have said before when formula is necessary it is an excellent alternative, however too many women have problems that can actually be overcome with help and support and many women give up too easily because formula is so widely available. Nature wouldnt make so many women fail in something that has to keep the species alive otherwise the human race would die out.

sorry if that didn't make sense, should just go to bed now but will try to explain.

Don't the news stories about baby feeding ping back and fore over which feeding method is going to cause most damage to babies?

For many non-parents this is the only way that they hear about baby feeding.

And yes it doesn't upset the whole world but it does upset a load of mothers who are being pilloried for doing what is best for their child.

That is exactly right- the aim of this video was to promote bf in a fun way, we had fun making it and all stand by it despite the comments. However it was made would always upset some1 out there,

"and is proven research evidence"

Until I see proof that the bad things are caused by formula and NOT socio/economic and environmental factors, then I am taking that research evidence with a pinch of salt, sorry.

From all that I have seen, both here tonight and since I popped out my first enormosprog, the 'anti' ness is all from the BF 'side'.
I am clearly a lesser person because I mixed fed and because I respect a woman's right to choose which feeding method suits her best. And of course, my children are all fat and stupid. Oh, so am I and my siblings.

Wellll...we're not. We are normal human beings, just like you, who don't feel the need to ram our views down peoples' throats (unless my blood is up!!!), or make people who choose differently feel bad. BFing, FFing, it's all a means to an end, why spring up an entire exclusional culture around it? Why make women who can't/don't feel like shit? No really, I'm interested.

yes but luna we cant even talk about bloody bf without ff getting all stressy. i mentioned latch on groups earlier and instantly had a comment belittling that.

studentmidwife,its shame your enthusiasm doesnt match your intellect,or empathy

you seem oblivious to fact individuals have choices and capacity to make choice.this may not be what you would recommend/like.but when you work grounded and realistically with people you help support and maintain safe choice.which is what formula is for many mums

it isnt about you, its collaboration.if you qualify you will be in a privileged position seeing client in hosp/community and you need to respect their choice and boundaries.

Promote BF? We all know it exists. We all know it's normal.
Anyone who'll only do something because a sleb does it probably needs to delay a family for a few years...

FF is also normal. As someone said upthread, hundreds of years ago the choices (beyond BFing) were wet nurse, cow, or die.

We boob feed, or we formula feed, or we mix the two. It's no big deal and scare tactics are, frankly, beyond the pale. I care not how someone feeds.

BUT...I will stand up for myself if my choice is belittled, or if I see bullying. I will stand up because it breaks my heart to see XXX crying but too scared of Them to stop. How is that good for anyone? Why isn't someone (that she'll listen to) saying "ok, well, we've tried this, this and this, you know, if you don't want to do this anymore, it's perfectly ok, no-one will judge you ".

Is there some secret war waging that we haven't been told about, between the gods of boobs and the gods of bottle, fighting for the most souls? Because that's how some tactics seem.

student mw-you need more robust supervision.your attitude is harsh and i hope someone picks up on it before you qualify

sungirltan - I think any belittling comments were because hackles were up due to previous comments. I know mine were.
Also, it maybe my generation, but yes, I will admit that a load of BFers sitting there BF is, to me, a trifle...unusual. To my eyes, it's a bit like a militant sit-in, but then, you need to understand that I am a certified loon, I get stressy when a pizza leaflet gets put through my door :)

Ah...militant...I think that is what is at the heart of it for me. It IS quite a miltitant culture..it IS a culture. I'm not getting the live and let live, and I think that's sad.

but latch on groups have eff all to do with anyone except the participants. the fact that we don't sit aorund plotting against the evil ff is beside the point.

is it like the difference between petty and organised crime ;) ?

'Promote BF? We all know it exists. We all know it's normal.
Anyone who'll only do something because a sleb does it probably needs to delay a family for a few years...hmm' - now thats a patronising comment.

you are assuming that all mothers make informed choices about feeding. they do not, this i can assure you. you assume that all hcps know what they are talking about with regards to ff/bf. they do not.

bf is still a public health issue. why do you think the nhs bother to get involved.

student-mw is proof some trainee hcp dont know arse from elbow

she isn't telling ff mums to water down the formula. i know a hv doing that right now.

"but latch on groups have eff all to do with anyone except the participants. the fact that we don't sit aorund plotting against the evil ff is beside the point. "

So there's no goat-sacrificing shennanigans? :)

Patronising? Nope. True dat. Do you honestly think that someone who will or won't do something because a sleb will or won't do something is emotionally ready for motherhood? My daughter wears only XXX because XXX does etc and lives her life from facebook status to status and Justin Bloody Bieber. If she told me she was pregnant I'd run for the fecking hills

My area is a BF taliban stronghold, trust me, to the extent of the mauling me about and yelling at me, making my loved ones feel like failures as women, bullying, in short.
WRT the scary risks associated with FF, that is downright offensive and possibly misleading - as I said, studies can often be swayed by whoever is paying for them, and we have to take into account socio-economic and environmental factors as well.
Gleefully telling a hormonal woman all that is NOT helping her make an informed choice, it's scare tactics.
We get PG, we get our little folder, 18 million BF leaflets fall out and 2 for formula. Oh it's promoted alright.

Public health issue? I honestly fail to see how. The e-coli outbreak is a public health issue. CJD was a public health issue. How women feed their babies is not anyone's concern; least of all the PCT.
Making fellow women feel bad because of their choices is a major concern.

Anyway, time for bed for me. Hope you all have sweet dreams, night night. x

We get PG, we get our little folder, 18 million BF leaflets fall out and 2 for formula. Oh it's promoted alright.
But take the (for the sake of argument) twenty-something years before you get PG. How many formula adverts have you seen on television or in magazines (sure, with "breastfeeding is best, blah de blah, obviously we're only suggesting our product from six months..." in teeny tiny print) over that period? How many things sponsored by formula companies so that their brand names have (subconsciously) taken on a bit of a warm and fuzzy emotional glow? Unless you genuinely got 18 million bf leaflets, you've been exposed to one heck of a lot more formula promotion than bf promotion over the course of your life leading up to motherhood. Now it's possible that none of it has any effect. It's possible that formula companies pay out vast sums to advertising firms and buy up oodles of primetime advertising slots just for shits and giggles, or because they are getting bored with counting their profits and could do with getting shot of some of their piles of cash.

I know just among my own acquaintance lots of women whose HCPs convinced them that they had a problem with breastfeeding when they didn't. Recently (with my third child, thank goodness, so I knew she was talking crap) my own postnatal midwife told me that my baby wasn't putting on enough weight (in spite of the fact that she was 2oz over her birth weight by 12 days old and was tracking a centile line quite nicely) and that it was probably because I wasn't breastfeeding her properly. Even knowing intellectually that that was rubbish my confidence took a hit; if I'd been a first-time mother who trusted my HCP to give me good advice I don't know what would have happened.

I hope, studentmidwife, that before you qualify you learn a little tact before you get let loose on your victims clients.

As for the video... weird and tacky beyond belief. But then I find all burlesque deeply, deeply tacky and offensive, so that's my problem, no doubt. As for the cows...wtf??