to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

This is my first post on this. With all my heart I believe that you cannot possibly know what is right for someone unless you have been in that (exact) situation. Yes, have your convictions - it's useful to have that basis for anything in life. But don't judge a situation that you have never felt and that for most is absolutely heartbreaking.

I remember very well that when I had to have a op (D&C?)following a missed miscarriage it took me a while to realise that three of us on our side of the ward were all crying as we'd lost babies and the other three women on the other side of the ward were very quiet and not daring to say a word because they were having abortions and probably felt very uncomfortable. I thought it bad that we were all in the same room - but I did not resent them in any way as it wasn't my pregnancy they were terminating and it was not their fault that I'd lost my baby.

I also remember my dearest friend who had never wanted kids and had been told she would probably not have them naturally anyhow did not tell me of her own shock pregnancy with her long term partner until my much longed for miracle ds was born as she did not want to 'steal my thunder'.

In the meantime she was unsure if she wanted/could cope with the child due to her financial situation and her alreadly high level of caring responsibility, but time was marching on she didn't tell her closest friend. She told two of us when ds was 2 weeks on and I felt awful as a) I didn't feel she would take my support for a termination as real (it was real but I remember I was breast feeding ds with tears in my eyes as she told me on the phone).

In the end our other very close friend took time off work and went running over to see her and give her support from both of us. She had a horrible time as it was something that was not in her world view and she has alot of responsibility already. At the nth hour her partner promised her support and we all pledged support if she wanted to continue and support if she didn't. It's not been easy but she's a great parent to a lovely kid.

I'm happy for her but she's been caught between a rock and hard place - she had a tough time of it but had she terminated I think she would have felt huge resentment for the rest of her life to some significant other people in her life and it would have ruined those relationships.
Had she gone through with the termination she'd still be my best friend without at doubt.

Terminations are not easy - and the women who take them in most cases do not do so on a whim. What my friend went through I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Let's not be so easy to judge.

Yes it was wot I suffer from bipolar disorder so to continue it would have caused me harm. That was my 2nd termination. 1st termination I had to have as I used to suffer SVT and had holes in my heart. To have contained the pregnancy it would have been dangerous to me. I've since had that problem resolved. Sadly still got mental health problems but as we didn't want to risk any pregnancy again DH had the snip.

I mean continued

I doubt it Scarlett because a foetus isn't the same as a born child.
I had an ectopic pregnancy which I had to have removed to save my life. I was devastated as the pregnancy was very much planned and wanted. It was removed at 6 weeks gestation.
However if I was to compare that loss to, say, someone who lost an 8 year old child that would be sick in my book.

Sorry, posting without having read the whole thread so someone has probably already said this....

You have strong views on how animals should be treated (which I share), and you live your life according to those beliefs. This is right and good. What would not be right, would be for you to tell your DH and your family and friends that they are committing murder every time they eat. That would be insensitive and annoying.

'Pro-lifers' (I hate that term) also have strong beliefs, to which they are fully entitled, and they have every right to live their lives according to those beliefs. However, they do not have the right to tell other people that they are committing murder when they make the painful decision to terminate a pregnancy. That is insensitive and potentially emotionally devastating.

"You didn't express an opinion, you said something idiotic and insulting to someone who had had a difficult time. The fact that you have apologised shows that you know yourself it was inappropriate."

No Scarlett - I have apologised for causing distress, which was not my intention. I merely expressed an opinion.

You on the other hand have made some astonishingly rude and spiteful comments on this thread. I see you've done it just above.

Are YOU going to apologise?

Why do I make you sick Scarlett because I choose my life before a 6 week foetus? It's my choice and my body remember.

mumnotmachine "Theres a difference between contraception failure and using abortion as a form of contraception though mrsravelstein"

theoretically yes there is. but practically speaking there isn't a difference because there is no way of knowing whether the woman in question has or has not used contraception reliably. i can't prove to you that i got pregnant despite using an in date branded condom in the entirely approved manner which had no apparent holes and was still apparently completely intact after the event.

it is my understanding that there is some discussion about future contraception post-abortion.

it would be interesting to see some actual facts and figures about women who "use abortion as a contraceptive" because i suspect the number of women who are doing so and therefore presumably having multiple abortions every year is probably statistically miniscule, as is the number of abortions performed at the later stage of the 24 weeks limit.

I didnt really have a strong opinion either way on abortion until 8 weeks ago when I found out I was pregnant. I was faced with the most truly awful situation and the hardest descision of my life. I found wonderful support on here and in RL from medical staff.

I wont go into all the gory details but 4 weeks ago I ended the pregnancy on medical grounds.

I dont feel I need to justify this descision but I truly believe it was the right for the potential baby. I do believe there are some circumstances where abortion can be the best option and some circumstances when it isnt. I firmly believe in the right to choice.

And saying someone makes you sick is just wrong

"yes, i wonder if they would be prepared to sacrifice their own, living children for themselves too..........."

Would you like to explain exactly what you mean by this?

My 10 year old is a living breathing child not a clump of cells. I wouldn't sacrifice her what a truly fucking awful thing to say.
I aborted to give her a mommy and to not leave my DH a widow.

mrsravelstein - I would also love to see statistics for people who have repeated abortions (ie - using it as contraception). And imagine the numbers would be very low. Even if some people do have a couldn't care less attitude to abortion would it not be a lot easier to use contraception which is available free to all.

Pumper a 6 week old foetus is not a lump of cells - we've been through this. It is well past the clump of cells stage. It has a beating heart.

I see Scarlett is in no rush to apologise.

I guess that speaks for itself.

Questioning someone who is pro-life = cruel.

Making vicious, spiteful comments to people who are pro choice = perfectly acceptable.

And pro-lifers wonder why people argue with them....

Someone posted a link to the figures earlier. I found them quite shocking. Several women have a history of multiple abortions :(

Id never judge you mrsravelstein

I know of one girl who had 5 abortions in the space of a year- she couldnt be bothered with her hassle of regular contraception ("Why bother when I can get rid anyway?")
To me that is a disgusting attitude
Using contraception is saying that you are trying to avoid a pregnancy (as well as other stuff!)
Nothing is 100% effective apart from abstaining (which is no fun)

For you if your abortion was right at the time, then no-one has the right to judge.

I do not want any more children.
If, God forbid, should I ever become pregnant again, who knows what road I will take?

Mum, if you don't want any more children why don't you and/or your husband get sterilised? Why risk it?

OP I can't understand what you are trying to say.
You say you're pro choice at the start but then go on to try to justify why so called 'pro life' is right.

I don't think you really are pro choice.

What saddens me the most is that medicine sans frontiers has to sail it's abortion ship off the coast of Ireland just so that girls and women who live there can have the abortions they want and need and cannot get in their own country.

why should girls and women have to have their lives ruined by a mistake, failed contraception and even rape? And yes even if it was a mistake, sex without contraception foolish yes. But men don't have to live with the consequences so why should women?

The problem is you never expect to be in the situation when you have to make that descision. Hell I never ever thought I would. Until you are there I dont think you can ever say with absolute certainity what you would do, how you would act, how you would feel because everybodys circumstances are different.

Actually learningtofly I know plenty of people who wouldn't ever terminate and who haven't terminated despite difficult circumstances.

Why does pumpernickel's story make you feel sick? Because she put herself, a living, feeling, thinking woman ahead of a foetus?

FWIW I tend to get extremely annoyed at the "why don't you give it up for adoption?" argument.

I've had what pro-lifers would arguably describe as a "lifestyle" abortion. I fell pregnant despite using contraception while at uni full time and also working a 40+ hr/week job at the same time. DH (then my fiance) and I were living in a cramped double room with a shared kitchen/bath.

TBH, with benefits etc. having a child would probably have left us better off in terms of standard of living - at least is the short term. I never felt I did not want children - and neither did DH. We would have loved and looked after this child had I gone through with the pregnancy.

The reason why I opted to have my abortion was simply because I felt I could not and, more importantly, did not want to cope with the stress of being pregnant while studying and working full time and with the anxiety about my future. I spent the majority of the nine weeks that I was pregnant feeling completely exhausted, stressed, desperate, barely passing at uni and doing a lousy job at work. My point basically is: I had my abortion due to not wanting the pregnancy even more than due to not wanting a child at that particular point in my life.

If this makes me a bad person in anyone's eyes: tough! I like to think that my life and that of my DH and the children we are planning to have very soon has been affected in a positive way due to the good engineering degree I now have and which I, yes, put before a nine week potential human in utero.

completely agree with potpourri, framey and learningtofly.

unless you are completely perfect, and know you will always be so, how can you possibly be so judgemental about decisions other women make about their own lives.

or are you all God's chosen ones?