to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

pinkloving - if I caused any distress with my post then I apologise. It's an emotive topic and people, including myself, have strong feelings about it.

Scarlett - perhaps if you are unable to discuss this without tossing out personal insults, you shouldn't be on the topic. I do not appreciate being told to 'piss off' for expressing my opinion.

Thanks for the link AyeRobot.

It's ok flippinada thanks for the apology. And thanks scarlett for defending my corner.

ìts not nonsence "wotno" its called FACT. A foetus that depends on my body and can't live independently is not in any sense a seperate individual.

But the main point here that y'all need to wake up to is that none of your opinions are facts, as there aren't any facts here. Its all one big mess of opinions, and yours is no more important than mine. And if we're talking about my body, its not of any importance at all. Only mine is.

But would that still be morally wrong pink - to end a life even if it was for the good of the child?

"
but the foetus isn't part of the mother's body is it? It's a separate genetically different individual."

individual? I don't think so.

Gruffalo - you're stepping into euthanasia territory there.

Well I don't agree with pro lifers
I've had 2 terminations in my time and I feel no guilt
Both times contreception was used and it failed. My life was more important than that of a foetus.

Well not really bubbley because the foetus could not make its wishes known - the parents would have to decide.

You didn't express an opinion, you said something idiotic and insulting to someone who had had a difficult time. The fact that you have apologised shows that you know yourself it was inappropriate.

i find it incredible the level of ignorance that's being displayed here about contraception.

I got pregnant accidentally at the age of 33, while using reliable contraception, in absolutely the approved manner, with my very equally mature dh, both of us having successfully used contraception for 17 years.

I don't know of anyone using abortion as contraception, but I do know a substantial number of perfectly sensible mature women who have had contraceptive failure. Even vasectomy is not 100% guaranteed.

So I find it extremely insulting when people suggest that an unwanted/unplanned pregnancy is necessarily down to irresponsibility.

right, i am bowing out now. I feel a bit sick reading pumpernickels post and we are going round in circles.

To say that to end a life is NEVER morally right would mean that in the situation I described it would be morally better to give birth to a child and have them suffer for a relatively long time and die than to terminate. I disagree with that.

oh, and i didn't take the MAP pill (as somebody helpfully suggested upthread) because i didn't know the contraceptive had failed until 3 weeks later when i missed my period.

Well said pumpernickel, your life is much more important than anybody elses.

MsTeak - And if we're talking about my body, its not of any importance at all. Only mine is.

I'm sorry, what a horrid attitude, but one that sadly seems prevalent. Nothing and nobody else matters but you and your rights, right?

No, I don't think ending a life that is only going to be comprised of suffering and pain is morally wrong! Of course it isn't.

Pumpernickel-was your life at risk if you had continued with the pregnancy? That is the one exception most (includingme) pro lifers agree on.

Actually MsTeak I think you're just choosing to ignore some facts because you don't like them. Would you like to argue against the fact that a 24 week old foetus has a 50% chance of survival - ~30% at 23 weeks?

Are you denying that a foetus is a living thing even if you decide to liken it to a parasite because it can't survive without its mother ie. The host.

Theres a difference between contraception failure and using abortion as a form of contraception though mrsravelstein

But you said that termination was ALWAYS morally wrong further up the thread.

Yeah I'm bowing out too. Attitudes like Ms Teak's and pumpernickel are horrible. Selfish and horrible. Good night.

Pumper - that was your opinion. Unfortunately your foetuses got no say in the matter. I'm pretty sure they would have valued their own life.

ps this is my last post...gruffalosma I wasn't including terminations that would prevent the child's suffering when i said that it could not be argued that ending a life was morally right.

yes, i wonder if they would be prepared to sacrifice their own, living children for themselves too...........

Good point Scarlett.