to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

flippinada- who the hell do you think you are to say what makes a feminist and what doesn't!!!!! are you some kind of expert on all doctrines on feminist ideology???? piss off. And you would then have the nerve to call pro lifers insensitive???

very good post pinkloving.

I'm neither for or against abortion if I'm honest.
What is right for one woman may not be right for someone else.

I don't agree that routine abortions should be used as a form of contraception which I hear a lot of, especially when there are so many other forms of contraception available (and by this I mean young girls who have had 4/5/6 abortions in a short space of time)

However if there is some reason why a woman feels that the pregnancy isn't viable then I do believe that she should be able to have an abortion without being judged harshly
There was a lady on here a few days back who was looking for almost justification about her reasons for terminating her pregnancy ie she knew she wouldn't be able to cope with another baby- that to me is perfectly acceptable

pinkloving - who are you to assume that people have an abortion "without a second thought" or "use it as a form of contraception" ?

What comes across from your post is that you believe abortion ought to be restricted as it would force people (women?) to be more responsible. How does that work?

A further inference would be that women who have abortions are immoral and thoughtless. Do you really think this?

You are making some fairly big and rather shocking assumptions there.

So pink if you are saying that abortion is the only option in some cases then surely in those cases it is the morally right thing to do. Or is a woman immoral for having the audacity to be raped and not wanting to carry and give birth to her rapists child?

scarlett - who are you to tell me to piss off?

Funny how quickly the caring/sharing facade of (some) pro lifers disappears when challenged.

Is that to me smallwhitecat?

Morally Bankrupt, any tips on proving who is and isn't a genuine rape victim, preferably within 24 weeks of it happening? If you have, can you let Ken Clarke know?

Flippinada, you are inferring a great deal from my post that isn't there. You ask 'who I am' to assume people have abortions without a second thought or using it as contraception, and the answer to that is that I have known several people who have done so. I have also seen that kind of attitude on this board.

You are making a bit of a leap to infer that I think women who have abortions are immoral and thoughtless. I did not say that and do not think that. I have had one myself and do not consider myself to be immoral or thoughtless.

I am not saying that you should wear sackcloth and ashes after having an abortion but I think there is a very aggressive militant pro choice view evident on this board and in life that ending your child's life if you so wish is your RIGHT and how dare ANYONE suggest that you should have a care and recognise that it is a life you are ending and that respect and humanity are due.

Thegruffalosma, I think sometimes there are two choices, neither of which is morally right, but abortion is the lesser wrong. I wouldn't say a woman who aborts her rapist's child is immoral but I don't think you could argue that the actual act of ending a life is every morally right. Now we're getting into moral philosophy and ethics though, and all this is is my opinion, as this is a board where people post their opinions.

Ummm how about those people who say they have been raped.... I think most people who have been raped take the MAP. Those who don't are those more likely to be abused children. I think in those cases it would be pretty clear for a Doctor to agree.

How many 24 weekers are aborted due to rape. Not many I guess. Rape is of course a nice, emotive ploy for pro choice. But in reality, abortion due to rape is very rare.

I'm not assuming anything, pinkloving. You have stated it as fact. My experience is different. I don't therefore infer it's universal.

"You are making a bit of a leap to infer that I think women who have abortions are immoral and thoughtless. I did not say that and do not think that. I have had one myself and do not consider myself to be immoral or thoughtless."

Ok. Are you saying that women who have abortions for the reasons you disapprove of are NOT immoral and/or thoughtless then?

"But in reality, abortion due to rape is very rare."

Are you able to proove that? Statistics?

And by the way, how do we (general we) know if a pregnancy has happened as a result of rape? Is it only if there's a conviction? If the women says it is?

oh flippinada, i really don't want to or have time to debate the nuances of what you infer from my post all night. All i can tell you is that I think every single case is different but in my opinion to have an abortion and not care and to sneer at the idea it was a human life and not just a 'bundle of cells' is a little bit inhuman. That is MY opinion only, you can twist my words and you can infer that i am a woman hating anti feminist or anything else you wish. I'm not sure which part i stated as fact.

And yes, I think the responsibility to recognise that what was ended was a life extends to the man involved, too. of course it does.

I am telling you to piss off because I am annoyed the first thing you did in response to pink telling a fairly harrowing tale that is clearly upsetting, was to say she couldn't possibly be a feminist! not, how awful for you, or I am sorry you have found your abortions so distressing.

And also, because you clearly think that you have a right to define what feminists can think. I would call myself a feminist and I am insulted that you think that because I have a different opinion to you on one feminist issue that I therefore can not call myself a feminist at all. It is incredibly condescending and actually shows you to be a little bit ignorant.

Not emotive, just practical. Most rapes aren't reported, never mind within 72 hours. If abortion is restricted to rape victims, then all women seeking an abortion will claim that they have been raped. Then things will get really interesting in terms of justice for rape victims.

Abortion statistics for 2010 in England & Wales

thanks scarlett.x

Just put the link there in case anyone's interested. Not making any particular point by doing so.

Think the worst case I ever heard of was a friend of someone I worked with years ago. He and his wife had tried unsuccessfully for years to conceive.
On the 3rd IVF attempt a scan revealed triplets.
She panicked that she wouldnt cope with 3 and terminated the pregnancy without consulting her husband.
He never recovered from the trauma

to be honst, it matters very little what people think, it's legal to have an abortion in the UK - thankfully.

I can understand why some people would never want to have one themselves but it is awful the way some people poke their noses into the decisions of others and bleat on about the rights of the foetus. Ultimately the living breathing woman who is carrying the baby has more rights than the foetus.

I find it laughable when people say they have no issue with abortion after rape yet then claim that a foetus has rights. What they actually mean is that some foetuses have rights but not all.

I suppose never recovered is the wrong wording- he never forgave his wife for what she had done.

'it is a basic human right to be able to do what you want to your own body'
but the foetus isn't part of the mother's body is it? It's a separate genetically different individual.The argument that it doesn't count becasue it can't survive outside the womb is nonsense.A newborn baby cannot survive by itself it is still completely dependent on it's parents.

OK so what do people think of abortions in the case of disabilities that aren't compatible with life where the child will suffer then shortly die after birth. Is it in the best interest of the child to preserve the principles of the parents and continue the pregnancy in that case. Is it what the child would want if they had a voice?

Well I think you said it gruffalosma, if a baby has disabilities that aren't compatible with life the decision is already made, surely? The child will die as soon as it is born so in this case I would say it is kinder not to prolong a life that is doomed to end at the moment of birth, both to the child and its parents.

I agree pink