to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

To be fair, balia, I think there is emotive language used on both sides of this particular debate.

Calling abortion "murder" and an embryo "a baby" is fairly emotive, and could be seen as disrespectful to those who believe that the central issue is about a woman's right to control her body.

Calling people who disagree with abortion "anti-feminist" and "people who continue the abuse of women" is fairly emotive too, and could be seen as disrespectful to those who believe that the central issue is about a belief that human life starts at conception and is therefore worthy of protection from conception.

Just depends on your perspective. Just because one of those perspectives happens to be your own one, doesn't mean it's the only one that's valid.

scarlettsmummy Most docs I work with will happily sign the consent forms, part o the issue for me isn't the fact you still
Need 2 docs but that the waitin times are songorroic on the NHS. Less trauma physically and emotionally to have fast accessto med won't for a variety of reasons

bubbleymummy,

If a drug addict became pregnant whilst seriously dependant on heroin and alcolhol would you still wish her to continue with a pregnancy that would likely result in an ill baby that she couldn't care for and for whom it would be difficult to find a home?

See, for me there too many ifs and butts to have one answer.

I personally feel people should use precautions, I do think there are probably a very few women who see abortion as a back up plan. But I mean a very few. Such a small percentage as to not really be fair to use as an argument. To use this few to determine why the vast majority shouldn't have access to safe reliable abortion seems very unfair indeed.

Of the issue for me isn't the fact you still need 2 docs but is the horrendous waiting time on NHS. Physically an emotionally far better to have faster access and more support at the earliest opportunity.

Apologies for typos posted too soon above!!

Lady, I'm pretty sure it was in response to Prospects' post about being pro-life just being a disguise for 'slut-shaming'. That's the way I was reading it anyway. I think she only used the word 'slut' because prospects did. Maybe she'll come back and clarify for us.

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone referred to women as 'sluts'.What a vile term.

It takes two people to make a baby. It takes two people to decide not to use contraception,not just the woman.The man is as capable of preventing a pregnancy,as the woman,yet it's always the woman's fault isn't it,or so many seem to believe. So the woman is a slut for not preventing a pregnancy,but the man apparently bears little or no responsibility.

But actually I believe that it is wrong to force anyone to continue with a pregnancy regardless of how the baby was conceived. I don't care if they won it in a raffle,if they used contraception or didn't.I may think they,and their partner,were foolish not to do so, but their right to abortion,the right to be treated as more than a mere incubator is as valid as that of anyone who did imho.
It's as wrong to force them to continue a pregnancy against their will as it is someone who had a contraception failure. This idea of punishing women for having sex is an incredibly disturbing one,but sadly nothing new.

Lola,

"If a drug addict became pregnant whilst seriously dependant on heroin and alcolhol would you still wish her to continue with a pregnancy that would likely result in an ill baby that she couldn't care for and for whom it would be difficult to find a home?"

Does that mean we should start assessing ALL mothers for their ability to raise a child and abort any children they may conceive? Why assess only the ones who become unexpectedly pregnant?

Agree 100% Letthereberock

LTBR - I just want to point out that it was suchprospects who was referring to people as sluts and other posts have been in response to that.

lola- also would you apply that argument to all children that are going to be born with a disability?? they are also going to have a difficult start in life so should we just terminate them too?

'However, the fact that it is still illegal shows that it doesn't have the same level of support as what it does in other parts of the UK. The majority of my friends from Northern Ireland are university educated, and many do not attend church, however they are still pro life.'

There certainly are pro life atheists out there,I've no doubt of that,but the churches influence is everywhere,and it certainly plays it's part. I'm an atheist myself,though I was educated in Catholic schools,and at times I'm amazed by the influence it's had on me,and how unaware of it I am much of the time.

However in the end I don't give a toss why people are against allowing terminations,or if 99.9% of the people of NI are,and only one woman in the whole country wants to have one. It's that one woman whose views I care about because it is her body and well being that are involved,therefore it's she,and she alone who should be allowed to dictate what is done with it.

lola- also would you apply that argument to all children that are going to be born with a disability?? they are also going to have a difficult start in life so should we just terminate them too?

No, but in a perfect world hopefully these children who are already born with a hard life ahead of them will be born in to families who want them and love them. Not everyone is willing to adopt a child who has disabilities, and we are discussing children who won't be born in to familes who want them but mothers who for whatever reason were forced to bring a child against their will in to the world. I also think bringing a child in to the world to be born severly dependant on drugs is pretty heart breaking.

"Surely an end to abuse and access to contraception would be a better idea?"

Oh gosh - why didn't they think of that! And in the meantime, just while you are sorting out an end to abuse this sunday afternoon - what about the 12 year old children who are raped and get pregnant and are ostracised from their communities?

balia, of course an abortion would solve ALL their problems wouldn't it? I'm just saying I would rather support a campaign that targets the root of the problem not the result.

letthereberock- What about the doctors and nurses in Northern Ireland that would have to carry out the abortions?? A major issue in Northern Ireland that many of the medical staff simply do not want to carry out terminations and the law allows them to choose not to have too if they don't want to.

bubbleymummy - are you saying that access to safe abortion wouldn't be of any help to them?

balia, I don't agree with abortion. Why would I support a campaign for it?

You don't have to. However, I would have thought it was a moral obligation to at least show some compassion and perhaps realise that the view you support and argue for means that the very poorest and most vulnerable of women are a target for rape as a weapon of war and that their lives will be that little bit more utterly wretched.

The butterfly campaign is also to show support and solidarity to women who are marching to try to put an end to widespread violence against women and girls.

Lola, my Mother was a heroin addict, does this mean I should have been aborted?

I also have a disability, I am in constant agony and walk with 2 rheumatoid walking sticks at the age of 20, so I guess you could say my standard of life is lowered.

It frightens me that someone may have convinced her to have an abortion due to her circumstances, because I cherish my life, regardless of pain or emotional hurt.

you don't agree with abortion, don't have one. It really is that simple. Leave everyone else alone to do what they want.

MsTeak Exactly!

I don't agree with abortion so wouldn't have one. I am passionately against abortion for social reasons. I do however accept the need for abortion when rape is involved or their are serious medical problems which would mean the baby would have no quality of life.

I do not in anyway believe abortion should be available up to 24 weeks however.