David Cameron welfare reforms-no family will receive more than £25,000 a year.

[Hammy02]

Good idea? I think so. I can't believe a single family receives this much already in benefits. It is about the same as the average income so it would be ridiculous for any one family to have more in benefits than someone that works?

Ok, apparently from what I've found the DLA exemption still exists, unless anything new has arisen in the past couple of days.

It should definately be capped at 25K. I'm shocked that some people on benefits can get more than this. It makes a mockery of people working.

That is a relief then, Glitter. But does not excuse the posters who say "under no circumstances".

I think that inferring that those who may be in favour of this overhaul have never been on benefits is disingenuous. It could be equally as true to state that those in favour of this are no longer on benefits.

There are a very very small minority of people who play the system very well. They are experts at it - it's a job to them. Whatever the system is changed to they will stay play it and still win - it has always been this way. They know all the 'systems' better that the people who run them. And they almost never get caught. Most of the rest relying on benefits are living hand to mouth and struggling more and more. They are demonised by the gov't and the press and it would now seem by society too. It's funny how the gov't are setting up huge faultlines between the non working poor and the working poor whilst the rich rub their hands at the thought of getting richer. We've been here before.

All over the UK working people are having to take pay cuts to remain in employment. No one is saying yay for a pay cut but if the business needs it to keep going that is what happens. perhaps the cut in change to childcare benefits is similar. It is perhaps rubbish but necessary for the economy.

I wasn't saying that people who earn less than 25k give their kids a shit life. I was saying that people who choose a life on benefits, where no-one works and you have no money for decent quality food, no money for a simple trip to the swimming pool, living in a crime ridden council estate, are giving their kids a shit life, and why would anyone choose to bring MORE kids into that??

Well said carben

Anyone aware of the expense involved when there is a disability in the family? Multiply that by three... then take out South East rental & council tax rates, water rates, higher utilities due to continence and sensory issues.... oh dear we're in negative numbers already.

£25k may be enough in usual circs. Some people on benefits are not in usual circumstances.

The problem is that it is going to be pretty hard to distinguish between families who have chosen life on a low income and parents who have had it thrust on them.

What about the woman who had 3 kids in good faith, then two develop serious disabilitites so she can't work, she thinks she is still ok at this point because her dh is earning, then he can't cope with the stress and walks out or loses his job? Or the woman whose husband suddenly turns abusive? Or dies?

Or 3 kids in good faith, disabilities not apparent at birth, demands of care increase to the point she can no longer cope so DH has to also give up work?

onagar, no , I know most won't get £25K. What I was saying is that a maximum of 25K should be enough to ensure that all families get enough to cover necessities. Most people don't need anything like that much. The state should look after people and make sure nobody is short of food, shelter, clothing, education and healthcare. The sum needed for that to happen will vary from family to family of course but it should very rarely need to reach £25K, that's a good steady income level in my view.

I know that's idealistic.

Disability benefits will be exempted from the cap, so no need for posters to keep trying to leverage it into the argument.

ccp I am now aware of thanks.
At the beginning of the discussion I was under the impression that the DLA exemption had been lifted. I've now realised that it is not the case yet people are still blithely saying £25k is enough. Correcting that point.

Since when were you the thread police anyway?

What extra lifestyle expenses do disabled people have in comparison to able bodied people if you don't mind me asking?

bangs head against brick wall

Perhaps CCPCCP's post could be highlighted.

Ok, outwith disability stuff as actually it's not relevant (thank whatever deity in which you believe)

I still have concerns over families in the South East. Rentals could very easily account for more than half that £25k.

TBH I think it is irrelevant how people ended up in a benefits claiming situation. Can you imagine:

AIBU - my not to D H has fecked off and left me with my 3 children in my chelsea house. AIBU to expect my lifestyle not to change?

AIBU - I currently rent a home in Chelsea with my 3 children on benefits. AIBU to be hacked off that I will have to move if these reforms go through? I don't want my kids to have to go to another not to great school.

so not to. {sigh}

DLA covers care and mobility costs.

Much fairer would be a 'cash value' benefits and 'non cash value' housing benefit. So an allowance for living costs and an allowance in line with local rentals to sort the housing. Those in higher cost housing areas are going to face problems meeting other bills, food, utilities. Where I am a 3 bed house in an area that isn't anything special is easily £1k a month.

Don't get me started on private rent rates and house prices, that does account for a lot of families struggling financially. The property bubble was responsible for a heck of a lot of problems with the economy, lending etc imo.

I'm a lone parent to two school-aged children and I was made redundant a while back. I worked out recently that I'm getting a touch under £25K a year in benefits.

Fully half of that money is housing benefit. I live in St Albans and housing is very expensive around here - I'm renting one of the cheapest three-bed properties I've seen around here but the housing benefit still doesn't cover all of the cost. That will be getting substantially worse when the HB changes filter through.

Another £1300 of that is council tax benefit and, yes, that does take into account the 25% reduction as there's only one adult living here. As I said, it's expensive around here.

With the cost of food, power, water etc, I don't have any money left at the end of the month.