To think abusing someone for having ginger hair is as bad as racism?

[joogle]

Carrot-top, copper-top, ginger-nut, ginger minger, Duracell, Ronald McDonald. These taunts can make people's lives a misery.

If race is defined as:

an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Then we can assume that racism is hate or intolerance of another human being, primarily because of the way they look.

I don't know whether 'gingerism' could be classed as a form of racism, likely not, but do people acknowlegde that it is as bad as racism?

And, honestly, it's not bullying if somebody says "Hey, ginger, did they leave you out in the rain when you were a baby?" It's irritating and crass, but not bullying. It devalues the seriousness of bullying to use it in circumstances like this.

Havent read whole thread but do think the 'jokes' fired at red heads constitute very serious bullying.

Eldest ds has suffered many years of vile abuse about his red hair; he says most of the abuse has come from adults, very little from his contempories. He's 21 now, and his worst abuse was from age about 13-20.

Whole issue makes me really angry on his, and other red heads, behalfs. It's ridiculous and petty and astonishingly vile.

btw, when ds was a youngester, I noticed that storybooks for pre schoolers were full of red headed kids - red hair seems great til the child reaches puberty. Why do things change then?

The bullying is bizzarre and awful.

'Any attitude that shows such a lack of respect for individual difference is just unintelligent and rude. I hate it

hear hear

there are loads of red haired kids here where we live and it's never mentioned: at home though it was rarer and names were always called. Mum had beautiful waist length red curls and has yet to get over her bullied childhood. not just names: being locked in supboards (she was scared of the dark) etc.

It is never OK to call people names for the purpose of mockery or making someone feel bad about something that is a personal characteristic.

Maybe we need to move away from individual isms?

racism- I was on a lot of threads including a parallel one oto this about disablism- homophobia all crap.

Abuse is crap.

how about we just work on tackling abusive behaviour without having to break it into slots, that way any behaviour of the type counts, not just qualifying unkindness?

At a risk of being flamed, I don't think one off comments can possibly constitute bullying. A sustained campaign based around hair colour of course is bullying, but "witty" remarks doe mus drivers is, as I said, crass and boring, but not bullying.

That should read "witty remarks from bus drivers"

DS2 has beautiful red curly hair. I showed a neighbour his hair when he was tiny and said "Look, it's red" and she said "Oh, that's ok!" . I'm already pretty worried he's going to get bullied and he's only 1. :(

Trouble is seeker it;s one from the driver, one from the dinner lady, another from the kid down the street and maybe the teens outside the lcoal shop.....

and sustained abuse from many can have same effects I would think as from one person. Perhaps even have a reinforcing effect?

yes if all you ever got was a single comment from one eprson you can probably deal, how likely is that/

With relation to a similar scenario, ds1 was called retard 3 times on Thrusady. By 3 different kids (he ahs AS), The school took it all seriously but in many ways it is ahrder that more kids think it, cn;t write it off as just one prat IYSWIM?

Still don't think it's bullying. Bearing in mind that most of the remarks from adults are not meant unkindly.

and that, seeker, is why it still perpetuates. Because even people who hear it themselves think "oh it must be ok, it's only a bit of fun, he didn't mean it unkindly" - bollocks.

Pull everyone up on it and it might eventually stop - let everyone get away with it and generation after generation of British children with red hair will continue to be bullied (YES it is bullying) and have their schooldays marred because of the colour of their hair.

If you read the Wiki entry on red hair, Scotland does have the highest percentage of red haired people. But that didn't stop my Scottish red-haired friend from being bullied for it.

Not sure if it's racism, but it is mean. I don't get it either. Red hair is gorgeous! And special and really rare. I say this as a natural brunette.

Well my DS has shoulder length strawberry blonde hair. He's always had his hair a little longer because it's so thick and gorgeous and I always felt it would be a travesty to cut it!

He isn't bullied for it because he gets in their first with a bit of a 'if you can't hide it stick a flag on it' attitude and most people just accept it. In fact when he started secondary school he came home regularly with tales of older kids saying "wow cool hair!" to him as he walked down the corridor. There are a few kids who have tried to pick on him for it but he already refers to himself as the "ginger ninja" so they don't really have anywhere to go!

I really hoped I'd have a child with red hair and I got one.

my ds1 has ginger hair hes 21 and a couple of his mates call him ginge ....my ds2 has strawberry blonde hair dd1 has dark brown hair !

Nijinsky, nobody has even suggested that only Asian people have almond eyes. You've just inferred that.

As for being overwrought because of not fitting the fairy princess stereotype, as I've already said to you there's been a lot of work done on this by antiracists and feminists. People have written papers about it and done experiments. I didn't invent this idea, however difficult you find it to accept. So for example, the reason this Sesame Street song had to exist was because of narrowly defined beauty norms that exclude people who don't fit them:

And you should think about going and looking up some of the discussions on the importance of Disney finally having a black princess in The Princess and the Frog. The problem isn't with the people who suffer because of not fitting narrowly defined beauty ideals, it's with the system that perpetrates them.

And yes of course, the former group could include people who don't fit it in ways other than colouring and hair type/shade. Although speaking as a shortish woman, I think height is probably more of an issue for men?

Celia, thanks for sharing your experience too. I hope others will learn from it.

Interestingly, I saw an article about this very thing just a minute ago:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/12/ginger-prejudice-michelle-obama-botswana

Author doesn't get it.

Celia, thanks for sharing your experience too. I hope others will learn from it.

Interestingly, I saw an article about this very thing just a minute ago:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/12/ginger-prejudice-michelle-obama-botswana

Author doesn't get it.

not racism but is discriminatory. 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'

Despite living away from Liverpool for 15 years; I have a strong accent. I do not steal, claim benefits or need to 'calm down'. As an adult, I get cheesed off with attempts at humour; when directed at my young son it infuriates me.

It is inappropriate to condone this behaviour, especially in the workplace and school. Describing this type of bullying as teasing/taunting/joking plays down the damage that can be done and hurt caused. I would not allow my DS to use the taunts in the OP.

Vive la différence. Hopefully, taunting people that look, sound and live differently will be unacceptable in the future.

I think the issue is that making comments on somobody's personal appearance (or accent) is unacceptable - negative or even in some cases, positive. I don;t thik it's a good idea to focus on one particular feature - we should be teaching our children that making personal remarksof any sort is not OK.

Well said seeker

Agree Sekker.

life is discriminatory against short people too. short people earn less. Tall people earn more.

maybe, anybody who is short or fat or ugly is at a disadvantage???

I think red hair is a red herring. It depends whether or not the red head is attractive or not. That's the real factor.

"I think red hair is a red herring. It depends whether or not the red head is attractive or not. That's the real factor."

So it's OK to make comments about unattractive red heads??!

*Interestingly, I saw an article about this very thing just a minute ago:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/12/ginger-prejudice-michelle-obama-botswana

Author doesn't get it.*

Most of the people who've posted comments underneath seem to get it though. I'm absolutely at some of the experiences posted on there - someone said their three year old DC had "fucking ginger twat" shouted at them by somebody driving past FFS!

I do think that redheads need to be a bit careful, though. Would you be really offended if a stranger was chatting to your baby in the bus and said "Hello. coppertop?" Would that be different from "Hello, curly?" or any of the other things people call babies?

"not fitting the fairy princess stereotype"

Surely Ariel/Little Mermaid is a redhead?