To think abusing someone for having ginger hair is as bad as racism?

[joogle]

Carrot-top, copper-top, ginger-nut, ginger minger, Duracell, Ronald McDonald. These taunts can make people's lives a misery.

If race is defined as:

an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Then we can assume that racism is hate or intolerance of another human being, primarily because of the way they look.

I don't know whether 'gingerism' could be classed as a form of racism, likely not, but do people acknowlegde that it is as bad as racism?

The thing is though, there was still prejudice against redheads even when pale skin was considered desirable. So I don't think it's just about skintone. Plus plenty of redheads have defined eyes anyway. My sister and I are both redheads and both have long dark eyelashes. Hers are fecking huge! She doesn't even need to wear mascara. Some redheads have pale eyelashes, but certainly not all of us.

You should have totally said that to the cunty woman though!

Celia - my sister said similar to me "I wouldn't want a ginga baby" I believe were her exact words. :( Thanks sis.

Flangelina - to the long dark eyelashes. Are you more of an auburn than a carroty red?

I dyed my hair a bright auburn from 17-22. It's a more toned down reddish brown now. I would love to have red hair!

I was interested in the 'blonde children being seen as angels' comment though, my son was white blond as a toddler and used to get a lot of attention because of it. I remember being told more than once that I should have a girl as well, because she might be blonde too What is that about?

Flange my eyelashes & brows are dark too - rare brown eyed ginger freak here. I have beady little eyes though, so they need a lot of extra help. That's not the fault of the gingerness but it doesn't help the general effect! at your sister, she sounds stunning. Yeah, it would have served the cunty lady right if I had said that but tbh before I read threads like this online, I used to wonder if I was BU to mind about that kind of thing - nobody else ever seemed to think it was rude! Hopefully that's changing as the anti-ginger thing is being challenged more and more these days. Justice For Gingers

yea bullying is far too commonplace good luck

yabu .gingers are teased they are not discriminated when it comes to jobs ,access to services etc.

Teasing and bullying is just as bad

it can be very nasty. continually being called names and physical bullying is awful to endure through 10 years of schooling... and it is thought of as just a joke... a bit of fun.. well it's no fun being on the receiving end of it.

I have to say I found "gingerism" shocking when I lived in the UK!

My husband is a very handsome ginger man and his beautiful hair colour was one of the reasons I fancy him! Where we live now people often comment on how beautiful his hair is, while back home I was shocked to hear "be careful you might have ginger babies!"
I would LOVE ginger babies! (though would have trouble keeping them protected from the sun in this hot, hot place)
Ginger is beautiful and I find it really weird that in England in particular it is seen as OK to make fun/bully/name call gingers.

FlangelinaBallerina It's not a coincidence that red hair is associated with the people who were living in Britain before the Romans and Saxons got here. Bear in mind that the last 3 lots of invaders (Normans, Vikings, Anglo Saxons) come from peoples who are stereotypically blonde haired and blue eyed

Thats not actually correct. There are strong red haired genes running through Saxons and Vikings. I know many Germans, including from Bavaria, who are red haired and a couple of Italians and Swiss, along with many English people with no Scottish or Irish blood. I read somewhere that red hair is associated with Neanderthals, but that this is probably fiction rather than folk memory. I live in Scotland and there are a few red haired people but most of my friends are brunette with blue eyes. I think there are actually more red haired people in Ireland but its a bit patronising to view Scots and Irish as a red haired race, when the vast majority are not.

The Celts are actually thought to have originated in the Basque area of Spain and to have migrated across the Alps, leaving traces of their genes all over Europe.

Thumbwitch, yes I am. Irish red rather than Scottish, iyswim. As a child I was copper. Now, I'm rather dark red, but am thinking about getting it dyed back to how it was. Celia, yeah she is pretty.

Blackeyedsusan, yes teasing and bullying is awful. At its worst, it can drive people to suicide, so it's very serious indeed. I'm just not sure it's the same as eg black people being more likely to get longer sentences than whites for the same thing (even the death penalty in the US) and black lives generally being seen as less important than white ones, you know? While redheads are perhaps less 'advantaged' than white people, we do still have white privilege.

I think some people also have difficulty with those of us who embrace a different beauty standard to the norm- which for white people is straight blonde hair and a tan. Choosing not to fake tan (I have never) or dye one's hair is effectively rejecting what's peddled as beautiful. Rejecting conformity is powerful. For this reason, I admire black people who choose to keep their hair natural and Chinese who don't accept that rounder eyes are more attractive.

my red headed kid gets lots of POSITIVE discrimination along with the odd negative remark. Red hair is a big plus in these parts!

I think some people also have difficulty with those of us who embrace a different beauty standard to the norm- which for white people is straight blonde hair and a tan. Choosing not to fake tan (I have never) or dye one's hair is effectively rejecting what's peddled as beautiful. Rejecting conformity is powerful. For this reason, I admire black people who choose to keep their hair natural and Chinese who don't accept that rounder eyes are more attractive

Sorry again, I have to disagree with you. Why do people seek to perpetuate such stereotypical assumptions in order to appear "different"?

There are many examples of red haired people in the "celeb" culture and who make their living out of their looks, and many who dye their hair red because it is considered attractive. Likewise, there are many who consider slanted eyes very, very attractive and using make up to get such a look is extremely common.

As a blond who tans well, I fit your stereotype but find there are many people who dismiss my looks because of assumptions they have about them - it is not as universally popular as you would believe. People take great delight in telling me that they don't find me attractive and they prefer brunettes or redheads, although their opinion is unsolicited. I have been racially abused by a Chinese man for having a small, snub nose! And of course I've been insulted for being a "dumb blond" many times.

Nijinsky, nobody said there are no redheads amongst the Vikings and Saxons. There are red haired people in many ethnic groups, European and otherwise. Additionally, I deliberately didn't use the word 'Celtic' at all, and there was a reason for that. People tend to use it as shorthand for the people living in Britain and Ireland before the Romans came here, but that isn't actually accurate.

However, like it or not, you see more blonde haired blue eyed people in Norway than you do in England, and red hair is associated with the Irish and the Scots. Not surprising really. This of course doesn't mean that every Scottish or Irish person has red hair, even if we were to discount those who trace their descent from elsewhere. Nor does it mean that every German or Scandinavian is blonde haired and blue eyed, though that's certainly been a pervasive view (eg Hitler). Ever seen those tartan hats with fake hair under them? The hair is ginger. There's a reason for that. Stereotypes are very important when it comes to racism and ethnic prejudice, whether they're accurate or not.

Nijinsky, the presence of a few redheads in celebrity culture doesn't mean there aren't beauty standards that exclude them anymore than the success of some black people means there isn't racism. There aren't many people who, when they dye their hair read, go the whole caboodle and stop fake tanning and draw freckles on themselves too. There's a reason for that.

The blonde is privileged. Perhaps growing up blonde means you don't understand what it is to not look like all the princesses in the fairy tale books. It's painful. I was lucky to be young in the late 80s when Ariel was all the rage, but even then it was hard. Must be even harder for those who looked even less like the pretty princesses than I did. I remember drawing my mum at school with long swishy blonde hair, which she doesn't have. I did that because I wanted her to look 'pretty'. There's nothing wrong with you not being able to understand this, since you didn't go through it- I probably can't truly understand how hard it is for young black girls growing up and being exposed to the idea that their natural hair is something that's ugly and needs to be changed. Please try and think about the experiences I'm sharing with you though, rather than just getting defensive.

As for slanted eyes, when there are as many Westerners having painful surgery to get slanted eyes as there are east Asians doing the same to get rid of them, you'll have a point.

Someone said, years ago Irish women had white skin and orange hair, but these days, it's the other way round.
Apparently, in NY men with red hair are mobbed by people wanting to touch it (and them).
I'm ginger, teased a bit as a kid, but not after teens. I think it got a lot worse recently in UK; I heard of a family being hounded out of their home. I have a vague theory that it's the last culturally acceptable thing to take the piss and be gratuitously mean over. Now we can't say we don't like 'them' because they're black/female/gay/disabled, who's left for tragically bleedin' useless gits to pick on?

The blonde is privileged. Perhaps growing up blonde means you don't understand what it is to not look like all the princesses in the fairy tale books. It's painful.

Actually, I find that really racist. Its such absolute utter nonsense too. You are making a rod for your own back out of your own self interest as a way of drawing attention to yourself. You also seem to be utterly obsessed with not only your own appearance, but those of other people too. Perhaps if you concentrated on what lies beneath the colouring and appearance of people you might life a tad less "painful".

I have several friends with red hair and I have never heard any of them wittering on in the same manner as you. Perhaps you need counselling?

btw in case you aren't aware of the fact, there are many Norwegians who have red hair. There is an ethnic type in Northern Europe, known as Celtic Nordic. It is very common in Norway to have "strawberry blond" colouring or indeed more auburn or red hair.

I like looking like the little mermaid.

Except for the whole mermaid bit.
I have red hair,as in almost scarlet,naturally.

Yep, two words. Pippi Longstocking...red haired idol that virtually every Scandinavian child is brought up with, and one of the biggest tv exports across Europe, dubbed into many languages.

I thought you'd probably try and play the racist card Nijinsky. It's quite a common thing for the member of the more privileged group to call the member of the less privileged group prejudiced, when the latter point out the former's privilege to them. As is pretending that the problem is with the person who observes the fact that prejudice exists, rather than the existence of the prejudice itself.

But I didn't invent the concept of people being judged based on what they look like though, I'm afraid. It's been around longer than any of us have.

And there's been rather a lot of research done on the effect that not looking like the beauty standards they see around them has on children. I didn't invent that concept either. Anti racists had picked up on this a long time before I was born.

Not sure about being the same as racism, but an interesting idea. Have you seen the M.I.A. video where redheads are being shot at for sport? It's powerful and haunting stuff.
As others have said, the irony is that as a child a red haired girl is bullied, yet an adult she is often desired (and fetishised).
I've heard that in central Europe and the US, red haired men are considered v attractive?

Or lets take Abba, the Scandinavian supergroup. Frida is actually a green eyed red head. And Benny definately has a bit of red colouring, in fact Bjorn isn't the palest of blonds and either...

But according to youFlangelina, only certain people can claim racism. I've got news for you. Due to my ethnic background, I have quite slanty eyes along with my colouring and am often not taken for being British. Not just dark and red people are seen as oddities. You really are determined to press home the ethnic stereotyping though.

Oh, and blondes have freckles too. Personally speaking, I am abslutely covered in freckles right at this moment. Damned things.

It's not racism, it's not as 'bad' as racism but it is unpleasant and wrong.