To think abusing someone for having ginger hair is as bad as racism?

[joogle]

Carrot-top, copper-top, ginger-nut, ginger minger, Duracell, Ronald McDonald. These taunts can make people's lives a misery.

If race is defined as:

an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Then we can assume that racism is hate or intolerance of another human being, primarily because of the way they look.

I don't know whether 'gingerism' could be classed as a form of racism, likely not, but do people acknowlegde that it is as bad as racism?

Frida has quite an interesting and sad backstory actually- her dad was a German in the SS. She's only half Scandinavian, so it's no great surprise she doesn't look stereotypically Scandinavian.

But you've obviously not read that I've said clearly not everyone looks like the stereotype of their region. So mentioning lots of examples of people who don't is a waste of time really. Especially in a world where immigration is more and more common. Your point about there being some red haired Scandinavians would be a good rebuttal to someone who said there were none, but has anyone? Stereotypes do matter though, if people behave as though they're true.

Incidentally, I don't think that only certain people can claim racism, which is why I've never said it. But some people do think that- it's not such an unusual view. There's a school of thought that defines it as something exclusively perpetrated upon nonwhite people. Have you heard of critical race theory?

YABU. I am ginger and although any abuse is horrible to compare it t racism is ridiculous.
Ginger people haven't been viewed historically as sub-human as far as I'm aware, they haven't been sold as slaves, they don't earn less than people with other hair colours, they aren't poorly represented in the top jobs, they don't have higher levels of morbidity.
That is why racism is worse.

Its wrong but its not racism. Two of my children are red haired and neither have been bullied or even teased. Dd gets nasty names because she is disabled. Thats far more prevalent.

You forgot Ranga

A very good point Riven and a sad indictment of society.

I think we're over intellectualising this. Red heads are rare, they stand out, so they attract attention. Sadly this is enough to give some people the excuse to be mean/insulting/violent. I suspect these people are usually brunette (law of averages ).

The blonde is privileged. Perhaps growing up blonde means you don't understand what it is to not look like all the princesses in the fairy tale books. It's painful.

I know what you mean Flange! When I was little (early 80s), princesses in stories always had long, golden hair and blue eyes. Children in adverts always seemed to be blonde and blue eyed. And this may well have just been the schools I went to, but it always seemed to be girl with the longest, blondest hair who got picked to be the main character in the end of term plays. I definitely grew up believing that you had to have blonde hair and blue eyes to be pretty. And I definitely felt inferior. It wasn't just the red hair, I used to feel rubbish about having brown eyes and would go to bed wishing they'd magically change to blue overnight.

It's got so much better in recent years though. People worry so much about how skinny young female celebs are compared with 20 years ago and about porn culture influencing young girls and I agree that it's really worrying but, on the other hand, at least you don't need to look like a barbie doll to be seen as attractive anymore. Well, not colouring wise anyway . It's good that young girls have as many images of people that look like Rihanna and Beyonce and Cheryl Cole as they do of Britney Spears types.

"(I don't like to word "ginger" either - it's a relatively recent work, since Chris Evans,"

It's not, you know - my father was known as "Ginge" in 1930!

When I was a child in Italy some people used to make the evil eye sign at me because red hair was supposed to be a mark of the devil. It has always been associated with witchcraft, and evil - Judas is sometimes portrayed as red haired. Also it was a sign of Celtic people,a nd Vikings - so there may be race memories in England of invaders.

The red head nicknames are irritating, but to equate it with racism is a bit silly - it's just an obvious feature to hang an insult - or even a cack handed term of affection on.

Interesting red haired fact - Jane Austen made a 'gingerist' comment in, I think think, Persuasion!

Both DS1 and DS2 have red hair. DS1 hates the colour of his hair and wants to dye it, he is only 8. He hasn't been bullied badly, luckily, but some kids have said something about it. He was upset one day because a girl had said he would never have a girlfriend because he was ginger.

DS2 5, not bothered by the colour of his hair. He has SN though, so he is not aware of any prejudice against his hair colour.

Me - Darkish redhair, dark eyelashes, green eyes
DH - Ginger as a child, now sandy red, light (but not invisible) eyelashes, hazel eyes
DS1 - Darkish red hair, dark eyelashes, brown eyes,
DS2 - Bright ginger, pale lashes, gorgeous bright blue eyes.

My point is - us redheads / gingers whatever you want to call us come in different shades and don't all fit the sterotype.

I posted on the other thread. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word ginger. I was called ginger in a friendly way when I was younger and I've used it as a term of endearment to my children when they were younger.

My DC do not have problems being described as ginger - its just a describing word in the same way you would describe someone as having curly hair. It's the negative way it is used which is upsetting but I think the more fuss that is made about it adds to it's negativity which then fuels the bullies.

If somebody describes my DS as - the ginger lad - no problem.
If somebody describes my DS as ginger minger or equivalent abuse - it's the abusive tone that is upsetting - not the word ginger.

I didn't realise brown eyes and ginger hair was unusual - that's what ds has.

DP who is a "ginger" went out with a friend last night to a comedy club and was sat right in front of the stage, The "comedians" had a field day, wonder if they would have done the same if DP was sat wearing a burka??? I think not!

You should really consult Harriet Harman on this matter.

I have 2 red headed children,neither 1 of them are "typical" redheads.

Ds1 has bright red gold hair, the bluest eyes youve ever seen and eyelashes a girl would kill for. His hair is not orange or sandy but a bright beautiful red,hes also tall so sticks out like a sore thumb where ever he goes.

Dd1 also has very red hair but a different shade of red than Ds1 its just as bright but a deeper tone.She has beautiful brown eyes and a skintone to die for,she tans to a gorgeous honey colour in the summer.

Neither 1 of them has any freckles

I have their pictures on my profile,the picture of Dd1 is a couple of years old now,shes always got some funky coloured eyeliner on now and mascara and actually turns heads shes so striking ( not that Im in the least bit biased you understand :o)

To ridicule/pick on a ginger haired person is bullying/abuse, but is not tantamount to racism.

In school people get bullied because they:

• are ginger
• wear glasses
• have a disability
• are fat
• have a big nose
• have spots etc etc etc

A lot of this bullying carries on into adult life, and it is horrible and spiteful. However it is not comparable to racism IMO.

Bullyi g and abuse are just wrong. Thats what needs tackling. At school anyone who has any difference is picked on. Its pretty vile. Andschools do littke to yackle it :(

Another one with two different redheads here; DS1 - rich red hair, thick blonde eyelashes (always remind me of a calf's!), light blue eyes, DS2 red hair and hazel brown eyes (pic on profile). I was a wee bit disappointed when DS3 came out with only a hint of red in his hair.

My two have had remarkably little abuse, although DS1 does get called "weasley". Mind you, red hair is quite common here; there are five girls alone with red hair in the class below DS2, they look amazing sitting in a row at assembly.

I am hoping for "ginger " grandchildren one day!

I want to make the point that jus because something can't strictly be classified as 'racist' doesn't make it unimportant.

You might not get lynched because you've got red hair. But if you were bulled and ostracised enough you might consider harming yourself.

I do agree with posters that say it's the tone and not the language of 'ginger' that's important.

I think it's that children have just picked up on the fact that it's undesirable and unattractive from little comments here, little comments there, even if it's not out right abuse and bullying. It's strange - I am not unattractive and have a perfectly nice face, but as a child and teenager believed I was ugly because of the comments that people dropped past me all the time. The usual:
Will you go out with Aries?
No
Why not?
She's ugly.
She's not.
Well she's got orange hair

From a girl: You'll never get a boyfriend though of course...
Why not?
Well, you've got ginger hair...

Etc.

So strange. I remember thinking even then that if I could change the colours of myself I would be considered pretty nice looking. But I couldn't. And I echo the confusion of a poster earlier who said that she never knew who to believe, because the kids at school said I was ugly because of my hair, and yet old ladies and my parents said it was beautiful and I was lucky. Who did I believe? Certainly not my mum and dad! This is the reason I think so many red haired girls are quiet and shy, and lots of red haired little boys become the opposite. And I don't think anyone who is blonde can understand this feeling - sorry.

It's incredibly offensive.
Just very lucky that DD has not had anything other than admiration directed at her for hers, but then she's not in school yet.

This is the reason I think so many red haired girls are quiet and shy, and lots of red haired little boys become the opposite.

When I was expecting DS and knew he was a boy, I started looking around for local pre school martial arts classes because I thought if he was born with my hair colour he'd need all the extra confidence he could get

Frida from Abba is half Norwegian. And another stereotype being perpetuated is that only Asian people have upwards slanting eyes - yet plenty of Scandinavians have this feature.

"(I don't like to word "ginger" either - it's a relatively recent work, since Chris Evans,"*

Interestingly, Ginger was the name of a chestnut mare in Anna Sewell's Black Beauty, which was written about 150 years ago. Its a popular name for chestnut horses.

Its not just giving odd examples "Flangelina" - Pippi Longstocking is the staple kid's tv programme that children in Northern Europe are brought up on. Its incredibly popular. Its a Swedish import and the lead character is quite definately red haired, with pigtails. Pippi is an adventurous and popular character - hardly stigmatic.

As for the not knowing what its like to be the fairytale princess - talk about overwrought! How many children fit that image? What about people like me who are ridiculously short? I'm not going around bemoaning my lot that I'm not as willowy and picked for photo shoots like Karen Elson. Come to think of it, neither are any of my black friends moaning about not being white.

ps I never had any truck with fairytale princesses anyway.

no it is not as bad as racism, any form of bullying is very wrong

but whole nations have not been torn apart, families split, people made slaves, women raped and people tortured for having ginger hair and we do not have political parties in this country wanting to gain power to rid the uk of people with ginger hair

i have yet to hear people not get jobs because they have ginger hair, for employers to keep people with ginger hair in certain positions within a company, for families not to talk to another member of their family because they have married someone with ginger hair, to be accused as having a chip on their shoulder and always have to prove themselves because of hair colour or for anyone to be killed because they have ginger hair

though to not want underestimate how much misery any bullying can have on someone

Definitely Freudian. It's nasty, it's bullying, it's horrible, but it's not racism.