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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

At what age does an innocent boy that needs protecting from a big scary man, become a big scary man?

321 replies

needanewname · 10/06/2011 10:48

Discuss.

OP posts:
Mamaz0n · 10/06/2011 11:42

though statistically the respinse should be "once he is marriedor entered into a long term relationship"

Because it is a proven fact that most violence occurs within the home to the spouse.

ooohyouareawfulbutilikeyou · 10/06/2011 11:43

the vicar who married us was put away for child abuse. He was the pastor (?) at the local Public School and groomed kids there :(

honeybee007 · 10/06/2011 11:43

Kerry I x posted with you

Your experiences are bound to impact on how you view childcare etc I think that's totally understandable

RevoltingPeasant · 10/06/2011 11:44

I'm just still getting past the mention of a man 'blocking someone's exit from the beach' on a previous thread.

??????

Did he engross the entire beach front area in three directions plus the sea so that she could not avoid him? Was he some kind of arachnoid monster?

honeybee007 · 10/06/2011 11:46

Perhaps it was a miniature beach and he was a very large man??

sunshineandshowers13 · 10/06/2011 11:47

oh thank goodness - some normal Smile people. havent been on mn for very long but almost starting to despair of ever "meeting" you!

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/06/2011 11:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wannaBe · 10/06/2011 11:49

kerry, experience-based mistrust and prejudice is entirely understandable. However, the problem with that is that it can often lead to complacency in other areas iyswim.

So, based on your experiences, you are mistrusting of men. Therefore, I'd imagine that you do not hold the same mistrust of women. However, women do also abuse children - far more than is believed to be reported. So rather than have a mistrust, it is better to teach children about the ability to tell/say no/what is right and wrong, rather than to assume that any of the individuals they come into contact with are going to abuse them.

Let me try to use a slightly different analagy (sp?)

In recent years there have been a few high-profile dog attacks on young children. Many of these dog attacks have been carried out by staffy-type dogs, or rottweillers. The reason they are so high profile is because of the sheer amount of damage a powerful dog like that can do, often with devastating consequences. As a result of that, there is now a wide-spread belief that staffies and rottweillers are dangerous breeds who should never be allowed anywhere near children. This assumption is based on maybe ten attacks within the past five years. But actually, the breed of dog that bites most children in this country is the golden retriever, a breed that is highly regarded as a fantastic family pet. Retrievers aren't renouned to be vicious; the statistic is based on the fact that there are more retrievers than staffies in family homes. But still your child is more likely to be bitten by a retriever than a staffy.

In the same way, your children are more likely to be abused by a family member than a stranger working in a childcare setting.

We have to teach our children to respect dogs, not to intimidate them and that on the whole, most dogs do not attack unprovoked.

In the same way that most men are honest, trustworthy people who find child abuse just as abhorrent as we do. But we teach our children that if any adult wants them to do anything they don't want to, in terms of interaction with their bodies, they have the right to say no, and to protect themselves.

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/06/2011 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MIFLAW · 10/06/2011 11:52

"He brings cake everytime he comes."

That's grooming! that's how they work!

especially the gay ones.

No, hang on, because they'd only like boys.

but they're gay, so they're like girls, so they must want to abuse girls, because they're paedophiles, because gays are paedophiles, and if they're like girls then they must want to abuse girls because straight abusers want to abuse boys.

My brain hurts now.

Basically, kill all paedos and don't let men look at our children unless there is a gay woman with them and unless she is being watched by a straight woman who does all the nappies and that.

It's just my personal preference.

honeybee007 · 10/06/2011 11:54

sunshine I'm not sure 'normal' is the right word to describe us..... :O

smashinghairday · 10/06/2011 11:55

I find all this Manfear insane, truly.

I can't work out how some feminists can function with so much fear and loathing every day. I'd love to know if some of them have sons , fathers, brothers, husbands.

The thought of a woman being scared of my gentle, beautiful sons makes me want to weep .

MIFLAW · 10/06/2011 11:58

"this may be my own prejudice based on personal experience."

Why have you spelt "is" "M-A-Y-B-E"?

kerrymumbles · 10/06/2011 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gotolder · 10/06/2011 12:06

Kerry
I was sexually abused by 3 different men in 3 different situations (one was a primary school teacher) when I was under 11 but I have NEVER assumed that all men, straight,gay, young or old are to be automatically distrusted. Because my totality of experiences of men have been good or neutral (except H no1 who was a child beater!) I have based my expectations on the majority of my experiences.

MIFLAW · 10/06/2011 12:14

"miflaw go fuck yourself" - sorry, why? I am deeply sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered and would not wish it on anyone.

but it is equally clear that your prejudice now - and it is prejudice - comes from that abuse. There is no "maybe" about it; you are not basing your feelings on anything apart from that series of horrific incidents, none of which, apparently, even involved a male childcare "professional" (I don't consider babysitters "professionals" in the same way as CRB-checked nursery nurses.)

So I think that "may be" is a bit misleading, because it suggests that, equally, your prejudice "may be" based on something outside your abuse - and it really isn't, is it?

needanewname · 10/06/2011 12:16

Kerry you and your friends were extremely unlucky and it is terrible what happened to you. However I'm sure you have
Met more than 6 men in your life and the others didn't do you harm.

What we need to teach our children is about respect, boundaries and knowing that it is not ok for adults to do what thy want if it male them uncomfortable.

It is not ok to demonise men in general. In no other section of society is this acceptable so why is it here?

And can you please answer the original question?

OP posts:
honeybee007 · 10/06/2011 12:21

I really don't think this thread should become an attack on peoples experiences or their views/prejudices caused by them. Op started it as a Tongue in cheek thread because the other thread descended into maddness let's not send this one the same way. Yes some people are hyper vigilant and think the world is out to get their dcs and others have genuine fear caused by their experiences and some have had terrifying experiences and try not to let those experiences cause fear I. Their adult lives. Non of us have walked in anyone else's shoes to know how or why they feel the way they do so let's go back to playing nice and sticking our tongues in our cheeks.

Wine for all!

MIFLAW · 10/06/2011 12:22

kerry

Do you think a father can, IN GENERAL (i.e. not a known paedophile, just a nondescript dad) be trusted in sole charge of his own child or children?

MIFLAW · 10/06/2011 12:26

"I really don't think this thread should become an attack on peoples experiences or their views/prejudices caused by them." I'm not attacking anyone's experiences.

I'm attacking the attitude that says, because I suffered at the hands of X, I can come onto an internet forum and make disparaging insinuations about every single member of the group that X represents and you can't criticise me because i have genuinely suffered.

the school bully at my primary school was a terrifying black girl called Anita. If I come on here and say "I wouldn't my daughter to have any black friends ever because I've found some black children to be violent and dishonest? It may be prejudiced but that's my personal experience so don't criticise" Is that okay, then?

Mamaz0n · 10/06/2011 12:36

I think it is important to appreciate and understand that people's life experiences do impact on the way they live their lives.

Life isn't balck and white. It is full of grey patchy area's.

I don't agree with the idea that all men are potential attackers who should be feared and avoided, but I can understand entirely why people like Kerry feel th way they do.

honeybee007 · 10/06/2011 12:36

Don't be so pathetic miflaw. Suffering sexual abuse is bound to have an impact on a persons views and feelings. You aren't attacking an attitude, you are attacking one persons views based on her own experiences. Unless you have lived her life how can you be so cold? It is not ok to tar everyone of a particular group with the same brush BUT human beings have emotions which means we aren't always reasonable in how we deal with situations.

A man/woman who has been raped in a park whilst walking alone, will have a fear of being raped in a park whilst walking alone again. Someone who has been bitten by a dog will have a fear of being bitten by another dog. Someone who has been abused will have a fear of being abused again. SOME people who have fears of their experiences happening again also transfer that fear to others they love like their children. EVERYONE deals with things differently and will be affected differently leading to different views, attitudes and prejudices.

Attacking someone who has a genuine fear caused by genuine experiences is quite frankly disgusting. She hasn't plucked it out of the air that men can be dangerous. Her blanket reaction may be irrational to you and others but to her makes sense as it will make sense to other people who share her experiences or know others who have had similar experiences.

This really needs to stop now. As I said before OP created this as a light hearted thread with Tongue in cheek statements about some of the frankly quite crazy things that were said on the other thread. Some people fear men for no reason at all, mocking or attacking those that have had genuine reasons to be afraid of men belittles their horrific/traumatic experiences.

OTheHugeManatee · 10/06/2011 12:50

Here's my nerdy addition to the nursery manfear discussion.

There's about 15,500 day nurseries in the UK.
A crude estimate says there's about 5 nursery workers per nursery, so about 77,500 nursery workers.
Male nursery workers account for around 2% of nursery staff. That's 1,550 male nursery workers.
Sexual abuse cases are under-reported, but UK estimates say around 10% of children may be sexually abused.
So let's say 10% of UK adults may be sexual abusers. For the sake of argument let's say the distribution is 80% male, 10% female. So 8% of UK men may be sexual abusers.
So in theory 8% of that 1,550 men may be sexual abusers. That's 124 men, in 15,500 nurseries.
So the probability that of the very small number of men working in nurseries, any given one of them is a sexual predator is 0.008% (124 divided by 15,500).

Furthermore, most sexual abuse cases are within families or by 'friends' of a family. The proportion of child sexual abuse cases that occur in nurseries is estimated at 3% of all child sexual abuse cases. So even if a male nursery worker is one of the estimated 124 who could be a sexual predator, the likelihood is that he would be predating elsewhere. The probability that said nursery worker has designs on a child in nursery is then 0.03% (incidence of abuse in nursery) multiplied by 0.008% (proportion of nursery workers who may be abusers). That's a probability of 0.00024% that a male nursery worker is going to do something nasty to your infant rather than just wipe its bottom.

Of course you could say that this risk is still unacceptable. I agree. But the fear some people seem to harbour about men caring for their children, compared to the minuscule probability of those fears being justified, make it crystal clear that it's about prejudice and not risk management at all.

Bucharest · 10/06/2011 12:54

Was wondering where everyone had gone.

Marking place.

needanewname · 10/06/2011 12:56

Actually this wasn't a Tongue in cheek thread, I would seriously like certain posters to answer the question.

Kerry as I said, it is terrible what happened to you so of course yourview is going to be based on your experiences, that is what I got from miflaw, I didn't feel that he was attacking Kerry in anyway

OP posts: