to think its pretty normal for a four year old to still need pull ups at night?

[ilovemikidz]

i am a regular mnetter, my name is of a "foxy" variety usually

but i have namechanged for this as i am asking on behalf of my lovely friend (who isnt a mnetter, but SHOULD be ;) ) as will be sending her a link to this thread. hello! at friend.

her DD, aged 4, was toilet trained about 2 years ago, she grasped it very quickly and has been dry in the day since then. she is a bright, clever, advanced little girl but my friend is worried that she isn't dry at night times as she is expecting a baby in the autumn.

her MIL and DH are, IMO, putting her under pressure a bit to get her DD dry at nights, saying she "should be" dry at nights now, well i think thats utter bollocks TBH, all kids are different.

and in any case, i seem to think that its less to do with how "advanced" or otherwise a DC is but something to do with a hormone/chemical that is released that enables children to become dry at night? am i right?

anyway, please could some of you lovely ladies re assure my friend that there is no need to stress and that its totally normal for a child this age to still wear pull ups at night. :)

Gosh, didn't realise I was so lucky. Mine were both dry at night as soon as they were dry by day. 2.5 ys in both cases. I honestly didn't realise it takes some children a lot longer so I've really learned something here.

I just want to emphasise that it is NOT connected to intelligence or being advanced in any way. My most advanced (scholarship-winning - not to boast but just to push the point home) child was not dry at night until 6. Another was dry at 5, another at 4ish. The last was not dry in the day until 3 but immediately refused to wear nappies at night and has been fine ever since.

It is largely hormonal, and a friend with much experience also told me that there may be a genetic link, and if everyone were honest about this you would discover that a very significant number of children are not dry at night even when they start school.

totally down to physical (not mental) development of the child - my DD was 4-5 before mainly dry at night and 6 before totally dry. my DS was dry at night within 2 days of being dry during the day...

the one thing i found that did help was to stop blackcurrant juice, and cut back on milk (especially in the evening), also to make sure that she was drinking plenty of water during the day. i got this advice off the BBC site i think but it was years ago and when i did a quick google i couldn't see the page that i got this from.

GPs will not refer you to an enuresis clinic until a child is over 7 years old until then night wetting is within normal development parameters. If nappies are saturated in the morning there is no point in even trying to train as the hormone to control the slowing of urine production at night has not switched on yet.

Hello lovely friend - yes DD is 4.6 and still needs pull ups. Don't think we'll stop needing them anytime soon either.

Bio Dad or not her DH is out of order IMO. He should be supporting her.

My DC1 was dry day and night by 2y3m. Was I smug! It's easy, what's the problem? blah! blah!

DC2 wasn't dry in the daytime till gone 4y and I had the help of my wonderful nursery to get him dry. He is still not dry in the night time, we get him to go to the toilet when we go to bed and even then we are not guaranteed a dry bed in the morning. I am not so smug now believe me.

DC3 was dry day time at 2y9m but not dry at night until 3y 5m.

We are just being refered to the school nurse with regards to DC2 but don't know that they will help yet.

I have been given the link to the ERIC website yesterday which might help you understand this a bit more.

Ooh, that hormone explains a lot. DS (4) just stopped peeing at night and after two weeks of dry pull-ups, he stopped wearing them. I thought it was magic or some sort of special Peeing at Night Fairy that no one had told me about.

Tell your friend her daughter will stop in her own time and it's not something that can be forced.

There is no normal age for being dry at night. My middle child aged 8 has only just become dry at night. My other 2 were dry at between 2 and 3. Initially I was very concerned about him and had a lot of social/family pressure about his bed wetting. He was also upset as his younger sibling was dry before him! We tried lots of things - bribes (cost me a fortune), waking him, lifting him etc. It got to a point that he was hiding his wet pullups down the side of the bed and he was putting a dry one on as we were pressurising him too much. We then decided to leave it for a while so he wasn't upset by it.

In the meantime I had registered my concerns with the school nurse, when he was 6. I had previously seen the doctor who said not to worry until he was older. The doctor eventually referred us a consultant. When my son turned 8 we saw the consultant who said to get a bed wetting alarm but we were horrified by this. Then an appointment came up with the school nurse so we thought we'd get advice this way too.

We ended up having a series of brilliant meetings with the School nurse (2 years after my initial phone call!). There are a couple of reasons for bed wetting - lack of hormones and brain training. So we worked out we had to train his brain and make sure he drank regularly through the day. We kept charts of how many drinks he had and wet nights etc. We had realised he wasn't drinking at school then cramming drinks in to quench his thirst later in the day. Then we used an alarm as the school nurse installed the confidence in my son that he could do and it worked. It did take 2 months and we have occasional accidents.

So, if your friend is worried I really recommend speaking to the school nurses who will tell her that wearing pull ups is not unusual. Also they will log the details and deal with it at the right time. We received loads of helpful leaflets and advice especially detailing that is not an uncommon but parents don't talk about it.

Ps this is my first post, sorry it is lengthly and a makes a bit of sense!

my ds is nearly 4 and is no where near dry at night...pull up is still massively full in the morning, so it's not just accidents. I have no plans to prise him out of pull ups just yet.

Hello Lovely Friend!

Try not to worry. My DD2 is nearly 5 and still in pullups. I am relaxed about it because DD1 was the same.

I fretted about DD1 though! We tried potty by bed, lifting in the late evening etc, but she was wetting and getting upset, so we went back to pullups
Then one day she announced she didn't want to wear the pullups any more and she was fine. In fact, now I think about it I don't think she has ever wet the bed since she made the decision:)

From a practical point of view, new babies mean broken sleep for mum, I would not want to add changing wet sheets into the mix! Plus we all know that any form of toilet training can get derailed by significant changes in the child's life....like a new sibling!

I think your life will be a lot easier in the tiring first months if you keep the eldest in her pullups - unless of course DH/MIL want to take responsibility for changing soggy sheets/drying wet bums and tears in the middle of the night?

My ds1 was potty trained at 2.9 and about 4.5 when we stopped using pull ups at night.

sigh.

Why cant people just realise that dc are all individuals and as they cant actually read the baby development books they dont know what they are "supposed" to do!!!!

ds1 is 2.9 and is showing NO signs of being ready for potty training. Really doesnt bother me and I couldnt give a monkeys wang what my mum or MIL thinks

I have no idea whether 'health professionals' or 'guidelines' would think that it was an 'issue' that a 4 year old was not dry at night.
But what age does it become an issue ? No idea really.
I think many of us would hope/expect that 5 year old was dry at night. As in, at school, maturing, hopefully these things would be resolved because there are other things to focus on, eating skiils, learning how to read and write etc.
Ds1 was dry at about 2.5 and was dry at night a week later. But I do think , by Mn accounts, that is probbaly on the rarer side of norm.

Wow - this is a massive relief. DD is 4.7 and also not dry at night, despite being potty trained for exactly 2 years. I thought because she is quite 'bright' and gets things easily, this could have indicated a problem, but am glad to see the consensus is that it's normal behaviour.
I don't even particulalrly mind what other people think but was genuinely thinking she was quite old to be in pull-ups at night, especially as sleepovers with friends seem to be looming already. Bring on the hormone!

I'm going to add my experience if it helps your friend.

I have 3DCs. DD1 has just turned 4. DD2 is 2.5.
DD1 potty trained herself early and, apart from a few regressions, has done really well.
DD2 potty trained herself even earlier and had virtually no accidents.

DD2 then went dry at night - REALLY early on. Her own doing. Took her nappy off at night aone night nd that was that. Not one single accident.

DD1 (older, obviously!) found this quite odd, and was (verbally at least!) keen to be dry at night like her little sister. No pressure from us or family. But while wearing the nappies at night, she would sometimes be dry in the morning, but invariably not. This went on for months. Tried a few months ago to take away the pants at night but she had accidents so we gave her back the pants.

Last week we decided to let her try again to be dry at night by taking away her night-time pants entirely. I had the feeling that the security of having the nighttime pants (and the habit of having them on), meant that if she needed a wee in the night or first thing in the morning, she knew she could wee while staying in bed, and no biggy really.

The 1st night she was dry. The 2nd night she had an accident. No fuss made, changed the sheets and got on with life. She has had no accidents since then (about 10 days ago). She prides herself in getting up in the night and going to the loo.

Hope it gives your friend some ideas on how to try it at least.

(Oh, and if she'd not 'succeeded' this time, I would have given her back the pants and tried again in a few months with no concerns or worries.)

I agree with Dionne and others, who say that often these things can not be forced.
Sometimes there is a medical resaon for these things, i.e. you would need a referal to a consultant.
But largely, I think it comes down to a child just 'deciding'.
Many people will tell you that no amount of coerhsion or bribes work. Sometimes its just that a child ( an its not just a boy being stubborn thing), a child, just decides. that they are going to do this. from now on.
and it seems to be really, that simple !!

I think pull ups are dreadful.I think there is a whole marketing thing aimed at keeping kids in nappies and companies rich for as long as possible which families do fall for.

Getting kids out of nappies and freeing up cash and landfill is a good thing.

Yes all kids are different but starting to think about getting a child dry at night at 4 isn't a bad idea.It takes a while and getting a child dry before starting school is a good aim.

I think trying for a few days intermittently if nappies are dry/slightly wet in the morning is worth trying.Some parents don't like mess so don't bother. Sometimes all it takes is a wee at bedtime,lifting,an earlier bedtime drink,sometimes it doesn't so you leave it.

Personally I think you need to butt out.Her grandmother and father will know said child and may have valid views.Maybe they need to save money?Not sure you're the best person to comment on another parent's child and their bedtime routine.

DS1 is 5 and a half and is only just dry at night (since about March). Contrary to some peoples experience the thing that worked for us was a sticker chart with a Nintendo DS at the end. He soooo wanted it, that it made him focus his mind on making sure he had a wee just before bed and didn't drink too much in the evening. There have been a few accidents but he is 98% dry I would say.

DS has been dry at night since he was around 2. (gets medal). Unfortunately at the age of nearly 3 he is not remotely toilet trained in the day. (hands medal back). It's definitely all about the hormone thing.

My experience suggests that keeping talking to your child is also very important 3 years 9 months having been dry during the day for over a year DD was keen to go without a nappy at night so we tried it didn't work. About 8 months later I noticed that the nappy was no warm and wet in the morning rather than cool and wet. I had a chat with DD who reported that when she woke her nappy was dry, but she stayed in her bed and weed in her nappy because she could. So the nappy came off and she was dry.
The range in her little friends of dry at night was 3years to 7 years.

I think every child is different. DS was dry during the day at 2, dry at night before he was 3. DD was day-dry at just over 2, and is still wearing pull-ups at almost 4. She is now asking to not wear nappies at night so we are about to start her without them.

Dd is 4.3. Never had a dry morning nappy. Tried once without and the bed was soaked. She has slept through an earthquake before so having a wet bed doesnt stand a chance of waking her ! She'll do it when shes ready.

Nevermind dry at night, my 4th dc isn't out of nappies during the day yet! He is 3yrs 7mo. He simply isn't ready yet. My other 3 were out of nappies and dry at night between the ages of 2.9 and 3.3, and I'm not doing anything different, it's just the way my son is.

He is tall for his age too, so I'm sure the funny looks will be coming soon as people realise he's still in nappies.

i think that putting the child under pressure doesn't help things either :(

i was really blase about it with DS, never said anything about it to him as didnt want to stress him out, just waited till his pull ups were dry in the morning for a few days straight, then just stopped putting him in them, he was about 3 1/2 i think. he's 5 now and no accidents whatsoever either night or day.