to think that MN is descending into class war?

[Hullygully]

Today I have read a comment that someone's potential home looks like "a council house on a sink estate," seen a debate about "chav fashion," vile comments about "Poor Kids" etc and seen numerous threads over the past few days where people fight to gang up together against the infesting lower orders with their bad grammar, poor articulation, txt spk and poor spelling.

WTF people?

It is snobbery. Nothing else.

There's a difference between the MN house style (idiosyncratic acronyms, no text speak etc) which is part of what it means to be here, and general rudeness.

The threads I've been on about Poor Kids (if you mean last night's programme) have ended up being wholly supportive and, in places, moving. MN is almost totally self-moderating (and some posters on Poor Kids threads were dealt with in that way).

But on the times when MN has moderated more robustly, the line from MNHQ is "like it or go to another site".

This may sound harsh, but if MN is not a community in which you feel comfortable, then perhaps looking for one where you do is the thing to do.

Shit spelling and shit grammar is enormously disadvantaging, and speaks loudly of having been through a poor, under-resourced area of the education system. "Disadvantage", while not synonymous with the working class is, nevertheless, not something found a great deal in other classes. It can be, but it's not found there that often.

And poor spelling and poor grammar really is a hugely visible and audible disadvantage. So laughing about it isn't really so great. Nor is celebrating it, mind. Or trying to apply liberal "vanishing cream", and talking about "choice" and "vibrancy". It's only choice if you ever, really did have a choice, and were well-informed as to what you were choosing, and could always, in alternative situations, choose otherwise.

i.m.o.

I liked it went we were all cnuts together , now there's cnuts and flagrant arseholes who ruin it

Are you including all the complaining about spelling and textspeak though Hully? Because I don't think that has anything to do with class really. People here just hate lolz and hunz and don't care what class of person uses them. My family are all working class and can spell.

OTOH I've seen loads of benefit bashing threads and classist threads here, not just recently either. There seem to be a lot more since the Tories got in though.

you should have spell checked that animula you prole

Agree. Some of the comments on that house thread were mean and pretentious. I was very glad when I saw that Hully had pulled people up on it.

And as MadamDeathStare said, any of the classy people I know would have said encouraging or helpful things about it whether they themselves lived in a sately home or a tower block.

Hate the Hyacinth Bucket poor manners of it all.

spellin is for lozers

I agree with Hully.

I find the textspeak bashing is basically an excuse to gang up on the posters who use it ( although I have never seen it and wonder why such a fuss was made) and denigrate them.

i'm reelly reelly grateful to be allowed to post on here with all the posho ladies and their Audis

But then, the only lolz-bashing type threads I've been on have been friendly, "I remember when it was all fields round here" type threads. I haven't seen any "chav-bashing". And I saw Poor Kids and thought it was desperately sad, so I'll stay away from any nasty, upsetting threads, thanks for the warning.

I've been doffing my cap at the poshos for years

I agree with the opening post.

The whole 'judgey pants' thing has gone beyond a joke.

We are all human and probably make more judgements than we should about people/clothes/houses/food, but we should keep it too ourselves.

It is so rude to actually write it down/say it out loud.

I agree with you for the most part but I have to say I can't bear text talk. It drives me insane. I can't understand what people are saying half of the time and I also think that abreviating things can make them be misunderstood and people can take things the wrong way. which can cause more problems. I just feel that if people take the time out to write correctly things can be understood better. :)

I think there is a much broader span of poster than maybe there once was, or at least that is certainly how i have perceived it recently.

Sadly it would seem that there are extreme stereotypes from each end of that class ladder that seem to post rather 'out there' threads. Those threads attract the more moderate posters to pile on and point out how ridiculous they are, which then attracts the weirdo's who just like a row.

But yes, class does seem to be a much bigger issue than it once was.

I'm really glad you're here, Hullygully, reminding people (myself included) why it is good to be empathetic and joyful.

It really is nice.

I detest textspeak and I don't give a monkey's what social class you are from, I really don't want to read it. I haven't been nasty to anyone about it though, and never would. I don't think that's big or clever. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with agreeing with other like-minded MNers that you hate textspeak and love the fact that MNers don't use it.

As for classist, mean, snobby shite, I hate it.

It's a bit false to equate poor spelling on here with illiteracy/poor education.

Sometimes I tyope so quickly I make mistakes and can't be bothered to corerct them/don't notice. It's a forum discussion not a spelling test.

But I do think there is a lot of conspicuous misplaced snobbery in some posts. The one that got me recently was the poster asking if anyone had had any experience of Eton because they were concerned about whether it was a good school. FFS All quite apparently unselfconscious too.

I also think, joking aside, the poor=inferior brigade become more confident under a tory govt.

"Today I have read a comment that someone's potential home looks like "a council house on a sink estate,"

I only got that far and I'm

There is, imho, a class issue here on MN, if you asked me about the bulk of posters I'd say that the majority are middle class and educated. There's nothing wrong with that but to say that about someone's potential home is horrid. I'd like to think that there is no connection between the demograph and that unpleasant comment.

I think some of you are going to be in for a hell of a shock before long. You have had a bit of fun laughing at people like B but

We own our own properties and have no debts

We send children to very good local Catholic shools

We know how to earn a living my Dh can run a farm, do building work and drive wagons ect and I am a capable woman too

So we are in a very good position to ride out any storm

Many many middle class people live in fantasy land,

Live in houses they don't own and can't afford motgage on

Mired in debt, and for what, to buy overpriced bloody rubbish to keep up with all others buying overpriced bloody rubbish!

Have careers in say PR which will mean FO when they get made redundant and no jobs going in PR. The men can't knock a nail in and the women can't sew a straight seam.

Your 'boats' are going to sink when the waves start to hit ya!

It's a poxy chat forum not a piece of Nobel prize-winning literature though.

And I don't think the people wringing their hands about it are particularly posh.

I don't particularly like it, but...(shrugs)

First post, but long time lurker. Prodded into posting at last by the constant assumption that poor equals stupid, low class or worthless. In the past I was below the breadline. Desperate in fact. I have a PhD from Oxbridge. My DD is currently at Oxford. I had a bad exH and experienced DV. It doesn't make you bad, stupid or even poor. It makes you desperate. And if you have a bit of determination maybe you can rise above it. But maybe you can't. I did, but my heart is totally with those who are struggling. And if they can't spell, so what?

Nice one Beesimo!

Good for you darlin'! :)

Textspeak I mean ( can't even articulate anymore)

I agree with petisa. The only thing I have a real gripe with is the text speak - I loathe it. There's no need for it when posting on a forum like this - there's no limit in terms of how many words we can use so why abbreviate? It was one of the things I really loved about MN, that there was very little text speak, and I hate seeing it becoming more usual.

Its always been classist, I've been around for several years now and the sneering at the disadvantaged has always been there and as vitriolic. After the poor kids thread I was only just musing on how some people seem to think greater wealth = superiority.

I think mn having greater numbers now makes it seem worse, that and the tories being in. People have stopped being "leftist" as they feel safer expressing right wing views.