to try to find a male view on this?

[jbcbj]

I am posting here because I know this gets more traffic than anywhere else, and also because I know I will get genuine points of view - which is what I want right now. I have support at home, but of course they are all on my side and I really want some impartial comments (if possible, from any male MNers as well?)

I will try to be as factual and accurate as I can rather than biased in my own direction. Tricky though...

I always believed that DH and I were meant to be together, but about 6 weeks ago he told me that he was no longer sure that he loved me any more. He likes me, cares for me and fancies me but it's "the love thing" (I quote him). He felt that our marriage has been cold for the last 18 months - for me, this was a total shock as it was the first I knew of it.

As background, we have been married for 3 1/2 years, together for 5, have a 2.2 year old dd and a 3 month old ds. He felt that my style of parenting was too child-centred (I carry them in slings, keep them in our room - although not full-time co-sleep - and full-term breastfeed). He felt that I no longer loved him and this chipped away at his love for me until he realised that it had gone. I have tried to reassure him that I love him more than anything, and that I was struggling with a young child, return to work, difficulties and chronic pain breastfeeding and then a second - not easy - pregnancy and birth.

He felt that intimacy had gone (we had had sex a few times but he has a very high sex drive) - from my pov we couldn't be physical without the pressure to have sex, so I think subconsciously I avoided it. We have always done a lot of cuddling etc though, and I have always told him I loved him every day.

Since he told me, we have been going to Relate and trying to be more physical but he says that "the love thing" is not coming back - I am worried that he is expecting to wake up one morning to find it suddenly reappeared, or that he is not allowing himself to feel it. I don't know - which is why I would like other viewpoints.

I am aware that it is difficult to know the whole story (even I don't!) and therefore difficult to pass judgment, but is it common to assume that a wife in a fug of exhaustion and discomfort no longer loves you? And for it to then stop you loving her? Has anyone else been through this and did they get the feelings back - how?

My DH is a lovely, warm, funny man but seems very angry - it's like treading on eggshells. He can't tell me that he wants our marriage to continue, or that he doesn't. His actions say one thing and his words another - we still get on very very well and he treats me really well, but calls me cold. I am also a nice person, and also warm....I just tend to retreat when things get hard and put effort into not letting it show. We know that communication is an issue, and are working on that, but "the love thing" is the real sticking point - apparently this has happened in two previous relationships and they did not last. I feel very much that he blames me, though.

If anyone can shed light on where he is coming from to help me understand and try to fix this I would be so grateful.

wow - I am so grateful that people keep replying. Thank you all.

tambern - if i'm honest, no 2 rings most true as far as I am aware. His previous 2 relationships were both longish, a few years I think. one at least was about the same length as our relationship was when the "coldness" apparently started. So yes, there possibly is a pattern. He tried to make those relationships work but ultimately they didn't (obviously!) - thankfully he has stopped referring to these though, this is a very different situation of course.

oldmac - thank you. And thank you for your input.

morebeta - but I have given some ground - and for me it's not a parenting style as such, it's instinct based on what I feel my children need. They are not permanently attached to me (admittedly ds is a hungry baby but is starting to go a lot longer between feeds) and dh spends time with them too - he even uses slings himself. surely he would not do that if he was as against my way as all that? he's a biologist and as such understands something about how human babies are born before they are biologically ready to be separated from their mother (and he indulges my....ahem....interest in pretty wraps!) I have tried to keep it as a discussion rather than being adamant about anything, and as I said he told my mother that he was happy for me to lead the way on this. ultimately though I am possibly as puzzled as you (although thanks to the contributions to this thread I feel like I understand a bit better), perhaps about different things though. Such as why, if anything was such as issue, he did not say anything earlier...

anyfucker - I still believe, perhaps all evidence to the contrary, that dh is also fundamentally decent.

gentleness - I have raised depression with him (it seems to fit a lot of things, not just this situation), but he gets really angry and refuses to contemplate being checked, even as a last resort.

The 2nd child often throws things totally off kilter, we found it a real hard grind until the youngest had got to about 3 yrs old. But I do think not having both dc in the room is a potential compromise - have you thought about moving the kids (dd especially) into a room of their own?

dd is in her own room - from about 8 months (i think, can't quite remember) she would start the night in her cot and then come in with us once she woke after both dh and i had gone to bed (if she woke before then dh would calm her down and get her back to sleep). since she went into a bed a few weeks ago if she wakes I lie with her for a bit in her room, so she doesn't come into ours till the morning - but knows where we are if she needs us. she's never been a good sleeper (gets that from me!) but she's not so bad. ds is too tiny yet.

Fwiw our experience was the first 6 months after second dc was very hard (didn't sleep well at all) and dh slept in spare room quite often while baby slept with me so dh could get enough sleep for work. DH took over most of the looking after elder dc, and we started one bottle feed a night so I could sleep through - made a huge difference to my energy levels. DH was also sometimes frustrated at this time, and I do think you should help him out there, if you are sore there are other ways iykwim.

we are trying....we had a big chat about his feelings of rejection and my feelings of pressure and have both tried to meet in the middle. not every kiss has to end in sex, and often if i make the effort to start a physical moment it makes me want to get physical even if i didn't initially....(it's getting late, i'm getting rubbish at explaining myself! ). the emotional side is tricky, given what he feels/doesn't feel, but we have made some progress i think.

I think you are making a mistake to start with the sex bit (ie. how to ensure he gets more of it) and brush his "I don't love you any more" under the carpet

That would be my starting point, otherwise it still looks like you are trying to make him love you again, by attempting to ramp up your sex drive

sorry, not what you want to hear, I am sure

Any fucker is totally right, you cant force yourself into becoming a stepford wife just to please him. I would not want to make love to my dh if he told me he did not love me anymore then sat back whilst I rang rings around myself trying to please him and look after two young children.
I am tempted to say I would give my dh an ultimatum along the lines of , If you do not love me anymore this marriage can not continue for all our sakes., however I do realise it is easy for someone to say when they are not having to actually face the situation.

You know when you do not love someone anymore and once that love is gone it very rarely comes back, Your dh does know if he loves you or not and I really do think he does love you , but he is going about getting your attention in a very childish and mean way and that has to stop.
From the symptoms you describe it really does sound like depression , especially because he gets so angry when you mention it , it hits a nerve for him and it is something he does not want to admit to himself, I dont blame him in a way I have been getting over depression for the last few months and it went on for a long time before I felt i could face it as my usual method of dealing with things can be a bit stiff upper lip.But problems like this do have to be dealt with as there will come a time when he has no choice but to face up to it, mine came when i broke down at work after getting a roasting of the boss .

So I am not saying you should kick him out or give him ultimatums but i do think you should take a firmer stance when it comes to him hurting your feelings , you absolutely do not desrve to be treated like this and you should not have to sit and wonder if your husband loves you. People with depression can say hurtful things , my dh does sometimes when he gets depressed , but it does not mean you have to put up with it , I spoke to my dh and now when he is having a bad day we give each other some space .

I really really hope it all works out the best for you and your family and this is just a tempora

i think men can get PND too. I have know 2 men suffer. could also be jelousy too though.

anyfucker - i know where you are coming from and actually I think full sex is off the cards for the moment. I swing between not wanting to go near him because of this and actually still fancying him and wanting to show him how I feel about him. There is an element of self-persuasion much of the time at the moment but I often find that if I start I discover that I do want to be sexy so sometimes I am doing it for me . It is harder for me (as it is for many women - and men too I suspect) to switch off the emotional side than it is for him though.

mrswhiskerson - I am keeping an eye out for further signs of depression; the last few days he has been behaving a bit strangely and it is worrying me (my mother had a breakdown and a long spell of depression and some of the signs seem familiar - he has a lot on with his new job at work, his mother is unwell and this situation with me must be so much for him to deal with at the moment). I hope that if that is the problem (and it may not be, perhaps I am clutching at reasons for his behaviour other than me) he recognises and accepts it before he ends up breaking. skybluepearl - perhaps PND may be more acceptable to him than straightforward depression, I might suggest it if he ever seems receptive.

Good luck jbcbj. You sound like a lovely and generous woman. More so than me I suspect. I love my DH very much but if he put his needs and feelings before mine and those of the children when my children were still so small and needy I'd be struggling to be as generous as you. I hope it works out as you want it to - you deserve it.

I agree with ormirian -you sound lovely and you really want to make this work. I so hope he realises and appreciates that

I hear what anyfucker says about the love and sex, but let's face it, many many people (me included in the past) equate sex as love and vice versa - the two are inextricably linked. The unconcious thought "he/she doesn't love me because they don't want to have sex with me" is not exactly unusual - however wrongthinking that may be

Good luck to you anyway xx

I think that whatever you do and whatever is really going on with your H, you have to set a time limit on his fannying around. And if he is just sitting back expecting you to make all the effort to fix the marriage while he grumps about complaining, make that time limit smaller. And think about things you want from him - marriage is not about the woman tying herself in knots just so the man doesn't stay. Too many men use this 'I am not sure if I love you' as a weapon: every time they don't get their own way they will wield it again in order to convince the woman that the worst thing in the world would be for her to be SINGLE! when actually being single is far better than driving yourself mad trying to please a man who has set himself up as your boss/owner/deity whose wishes come before anything else.
The only way to deal with an announcement of 'I don't think I love you any more' is to call the tosser on it. 'OK. Pack your bags and piss off. Becauswe I don't wnat you if you don't love me.'

thank you ormirian and curryspice, that's a lovely thing to say.
curryspice - point taken about the love/sex thing. Hence why although perhaps I don't want to be physical (not full sex at the moment, not physically working, but other stuff) I do want to so that I can show him what he means to me. That perhaps could be seen as wrong, but I am not doing anything I don't want to do on some level, and that level changes.
springchicken - I think I will set some sort of time limit. And if we get through this I need to be able to trust that he does love me - if he pulls this again I will perhaps be less lovely about it... I have been tempted to say your last line but ateotd we have children and splitting up a family has to be his choice.

Once again, thanks for all the contributions and best wishes, what you have all said has really helped and atm I feel strong enough to find ways through this and to support all four of us (yes, i know he should be supporting me but i genuinely feel that he needs more support than i do right now. i am not sure he is as strong as he thinks he is...). thank you.

good luck x

I feel for you both you are both obviously going through a really hard time and I do hope you can get through it , do you have anyone who can look after the children so you can have a lovely weekend away so
e real quality time ?
Would it be possible for you to get a part time cleaner to take the pressure of the housework off you, it may seem like a extravagance but what. It would give you back in terms of rest and a bit of time for yourself it would be worth it.
Try not to worry about if he breaks down it is not always how people imagine , mine was just bursting into tears at work which made me realise I had to get it sorted . I am getting counselling and taking sertraline and now a few months down the line my mood and general well being is much better and I feel a lot more positive towards life in general. There is no shame in getting help your dh is going through a lot and so are you , take care

i hope this all works out for you jbcbj.
i really dont like the idea that men constantly want sex and women give them a little accasionaly for good behavoir sex is 50% the womans responsability too,
if you dont feel the desire and your giving him "pull my nightie down when your done" sex he will notice. i, personaly, want to have sex with a woman who also, funily enough , wants sex. as you might guess from my rant it isnt usually what i get though, and yes it makes the relationship cold .