Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

[sundayrose10]

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

I have / am experiencing DV and have said on many occasions that when he realises it is over he will kill me. I am not a twat. I am not weak. I am not a doormat. I am in fact an attractive, fun, reasonably intelligent, forthright, feminist (LOL) from a loving home with many great friends. Actually I have been told that because I am 'feisty', it probably doesn't help. Indeed, how dare I challenge him ? There is always a way to blame the woman - whether it is because she is too weak to leave or whether she is too non-conforming and 'winds him up'.

Yet none of that makes any difference when you are dealing with the intensity of a DV situation. The reality of the situation instinctively becomes how do I get out without him killing me and my children? If I reasonably know that he might kill me / seriously injure me or my children if he knows for sure it is over, what exactly do I do - do I take that risk? If you have never been in the situation where suddenly the only thought you have is "I am going to die here now", then please don't judge, it just makes you sound like a bit of a twat.

Stories like this actually make things worse for DV 'victims'. It really brings it home that your instincts are right, he really might kill you, even though you wish with all your heart you could just finish it and "CHOOSE TO WALK AWAY".

Michelle, if my husband did that to me I would leave.
Or he would.

Of that I am 100% certain. I have left boyfriends for far less.

Greenstocking. You are victim-blaming. Please stop. It is deeply offensive.

You'd leave your husband for wanting to drive you to work? You'd leave your husband for asking you why you spend so much money at the hairdressers? Really?

Ladyblah blah - jesus your post is terrifying.

What about your friends and family? Can they help? What can they do?

No Michelle, I'd leave my husband for being nasty and controlling and sitting outside wherever I was and spying on me. I'd leave him for not having any respect for me whatsoever or any trust.

Not quite wanting to drive me to work ( although I am quite capable of driving myself, of course).

Sybil - no. I am putting across a different point of view and one to which I am as entitled as you are.
I find not crediting women with any power over their own lives rather offensive, too.

Greenstocking -why have you changed tack ? Up until now, it's the womans fault for staying with tattooed, gun wielding, drug dealing thugs ? Why should Lady blah Blahs family and friends help ? If you stand by your earlier posts, all she has to do is get in the car and drive away?
It's that 'simple' in your eyes isn't it?

Alouiseg - I can't understand any of your logic. But I have no desire to report ANYONES posts. I think the mysogonistic views being spouted about women being somehow responsible for being/becoming a victim of DV are useful and the ensuing debate will hopefully open the eyes of those who share such a view.

He does know where my friends and family live, greenstocking. I don't see your point - all the relatives of this poor woman were powerless to stop him killing her? And yes it is terrifying - literally life or death. You have succeeded in reducing DV to a black and white case of leave or stay and firmly placing the blame on the women's door. Sometimes your choices become limited despite your best intentions because putting your children at serious risk is something most mothers will avoid at all costs, and maybe these guys know this.

greenstocking I think your uni experience has skewed your view of victims of DV.

What pisses me off is that Oakes is under police guard??!!! Where was the woman's and her kids police guard!

Everyone saying "yeah but you should leave" - just read LadyBlaBlah's post please.

Who would "just leave" if their children were being held hostage? who would "just leave" if someone had a knife at their throat? This is the situation here. Fear for your life, and your children's lives.

Lady - I hope with everything I've got that you get the support to get away from him. Is there anything I/we can do?

Sapphire.

can you address my post further up about the bloke I knew at uni - the women who were all keen to sleep with him/go out with him.

How do you address the fact that SOME women DO choose to enter into relationships with known violent men.

How do you deal with those situations? Do you think that woman ( like the women I knew) who actively sought to sleep with the nasty bloke are responsible for their actions?

"not crediting women with any power over their own lives" Again, who here has in any way suggested that women generally have no power over their own lives? You repeatedly make these sweeping generalized interpretations of other posters' views to discredit them, while avoiding the points you can't answer.

And also: nobody is saying you are not entitled to hold your views, however nasty and dangerous they seem to many of us. What people are saying, at least Sybil, I think, is that posting them here on this thread inspired by the violent death of a woman you imply should have avoided her fate, is offensive.

Say what you want, but this thread is the wrong place to be victim-blaming, ffs. Why not start your own thread to put forth your empowering view that women should know better than to have abusive relationships?

May I ask this without name calling, please?

Lady blah blah. Was he violent/abusive to you before you had children?

I have wept with frustration over the whole 'why doesn't she leave' and 'why does she keep going back for more' thing when it comes to friends. I may have started a thread or two, probably under an old name, asking how to support people in relationships like this, struggling to find the right thing to do/say and wanting to protect myself from vicarious (secondary?) traumatisation or victimisation just from hearing about it - but desperately not wanting the women concerned to feel they had nobody to talk to about it.

"Do you think that woman ( like the women I knew) who actively sought to sleep with the nasty bloke are responsible for their actions?"

Being responsible for their own actions is one thing. Being responsible for the subsequent actions of an abuser, as you imply they were, is a different thing entirely.

This discussion has shifted responsibility from the violent man and the ineffectual police onto the woman. This is futile; it could happen to any of us, all it needs is a man and a woman. Any man. Because actually - you can't tell which ones will batter you or rape you. If you could, nobody would end up living with a violent man. They haven't got horns, you know. Women's Aid did a book c alled somerhing like 'Prince Charming', because that's how they start out. Then undermining, manipulative, jealous, possessive, controlling THEN violent. Nothing to do with women's behaviour - its about men and police failure.

Dirtymartini.

You are splitting hairs. Surely a self preservation tactic is to avoid dangerous people/situations?

Oh yes, you saw him spying on you. But he said he had a call on him mobile and had to pull over. It's a coincidence. Isn't it? The truth is, you don't know. But you're on the phone to the solicitor and starting divorce proceedings just in case.

It's not that simple. Believe me, I thought it couldn't possibly happen to me. I thought, if anyone treats me like that I'm gone! But it's so much more subtle and happens so much more slowly than you would ever believe. There is no point at which it 'starts'. You suddenly realise what's been happening only after you're pregnant and he flips out and smashes your head into a fireplace. Only by then, you've started to doubt yourself. You've been apologizing for things you know didn't happen. Or did they? He talks so fast, he changes the subject so much. You can't keep up. Did this happen? When did you see this? When did that happen? He said he didn't say that.

These people are very manipulative. It's not down to what sort of person you are. They're in your life, they live in your house. They know everything about you. They also have all the time in the world to break you.

Earlier up the thread I was asked what I would do if my DH started with possessive and controlling behaviour and I said I would leave.

That was met with incredulity.

Now I read that it starts with that and ends in violence. And most of us are aware of that so why be incredulous that someone would choose to leave at the first signs?

thank you DirtyMartini. Exactly.

What kind of a person would come along to a thread about a woman killed by her partner and start going off on one about how victims should behave differently?
How about violent men behaving differently?
How about people who are supposed to be protecting these victims behaving differently? Ie the people who are actually committing crimes or the people who are actually failing in their jobs?
It's just so much easier to blame the victim, isn't it? Let's just pretend they brought it on themselves, shall we?

michell I agree, and how often do victims of DV end up apologising to their abuser, for their wrongs. Abusers are great at manipulation. It doesn't matter the strength of character of a woman.

Thanks Elephants

Was he abusive before children? Certainly not in a way that would stand up in court as being abusive but was probably showing markers for the possibility e.g. jealousy, possessiveness. BUt these factors alone do not predict DV, so it really doesn't tend to cross your optimistic young mind. Which is what the poster with the husband calling to criticise on very minor points was getting at. Most of the behaviours are 'normal' on their own, it is just when they exist alongside many other abusive type behaviours that you start to realise that the shit may hit the fan, and by that time it is often too late.

And again, why would you think you have to request no name-calling? If there's been any name-calling it must have been by a tiny percentage of people here; I can't even find any. As with the "slinging abuse" you mentioned earlier.

As 99% of posts here are not name-calling or slinging abuse at you, I think you are being a little melodramatic. Could it be to distract us all from your half-baked ideas re DV? Hmm.

It seems that reading your posts and engaging with you isn't, after all, enough to get a straight answer.