Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

[sundayrose10]

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

babybarrister your post is very strange

"there is violence at the end of the majority of relationships"

That is just nonsense.

"Many people come to court around the time of the split, rightly obtain a non-molestation injunction with various add ons and a year later when other issues re money and children have been resolved, the anger has dissipated and so has the fear."

You speak as if this is a normal process of splitting up. As if violence at the end of a relationship and having to seek non-molestation orders are normal standard things that happen at the end of most relationships. These things are not normal, it is not normal for men to be violent when relationships split up, it is not normal to have to seek orders to keep them away from you.

If people in the law enforcement and court situations think that it is quite usual for men to become violent when relationships end, just one of those things, inevitable, a fact of life, then is it any wonder we're in the mess we're in.

Why will so few people say it's NOT normal, it's NOT ok, normal men do not behave like this, CRIMINALS behave like this, and the police and courts should damn well be ACTING.

Greenstocking - your views and attitude are contemptable. I was tempted to try to engage with you and try to offer you some insight into how violent relationships develope
But I'll let you stew in your own smug little world of smuggery in the hope that no one you actually care about or one of your children, ends up in a violent relationship. There is a very uncomfortable sense that you place responsibility for the actions of violent aggressive men at the hands of the women they abuse. Read the relationships board. Use some of the resources that are listed there. And don't be so bloody insensitive to the many, many strong, independent, intelligent women who end up as victims of these men.

To the OP, the news coverage is heart breaking. My kids and I are lucky -WE survived. The police made mistakes in our case - the main one relating to the fact that my ex, who already had a history of threats and violence, was given a licence for a legally held shotgun by an administrator.

Greenstocking - you are totally barking up the wrong tree in focusing on the women who end up with violent men rather than the violent men themselves.

The 2 friends of mine who have been victims of DV were not lacking in strength, confidence; they came from happy homes; they are fun, attractive and popular.

There was nothing wrong with them, there was something wrong with their fucking bastard boyfriends.

"If people in the law enforcement and court situations think that it is quite usual for men to become violent when relationships end, just one of those things, inevitable, a fact of life, then is it any wonder we're in the mess we're in.

Why will so few people say it's NOT normal, it's NOT ok, normal men do not behave like this, CRIMINALS behave like this, and the police and courts should damn well be ACTING."

seriously, and MN campaign would be excellent. I'm always saying there needs to be a Stephen Lawrence-style inquiry into police attitudes towards violence against women. Institutionalised sexism? Who knows? But something is stopping these things being taken seriously. Remember Moat's ex-partner who he went to kill? The police didn't even bother to tell her he was being let out, let alone protect her, even though he'd told anyone who would listen that he was going to hunt her down.

an MN campaign, I mean

Actually Greenstocking is perfectly entitled to her views. She hasn't broken any MN rules she has just made a few points. If you don't like them then report them!

I think that we need to understand why "some" men attack "some" women. "some" men are complete shitbags and will attack and beat "some" of their partners. Not all of the women who are attacked and beaten will be beaten by all of their partners, not all men will beat all of their partners.

Something happens in a relationship which tends to set the tone, the boundaries and the permissions. We need to look at what is happening to cause these tragedies and recognise that all women aren't doormats and all men aren't women beating bastards.

Oh dear me. I should've listened when my abusive ex told me on our first date, 'Listen sweetheart, I may appear to be a well mannered polite ordinary person with lots of friends and a good job, but in six months I'm going to become violently psychotic so do mind your back!'

Silly me. And I could've avoided all that trouble too.

Alouise I don't get your point. No one has said 'all men' will beat women. An abused woman is also NOT a doormat, I hate that express in DV instances. She isn't a doormat, she is scared shitless

Thanks Louise - easier to sling abuse than read and engage, though.

I have been married for over twenty years and my DH has never raised a hand (hardly even a voice). Why? well, he's a decent man for a start BUT he knows that I would leave , with the children and never look back. He also knows my dad and my brothers would beat the living daylights out of him. So he knows there are consequences to his actions. It's like footballers who publicly humiliate their wives by having sex with prostitutes - the wives stay and simper a bit and life goes on.

If vile abusive men know there will be no consequence to their abuse they are more likely to continue.

I don't blame women but I do believe every one of us is responsible for our own actions and reactions.
The very first time he raises a hand you fuck off as fast as you can. Because if you don't it will happen again and again. Scum like that dont change but women can change.

Michelle, did you leave the very first time he was abusive to you?

You know, when a woman posts that her husband has shagged around everyone on MN screams, " Leave the bastard!!! "

Why do we not do the same with those who post to say they have been hit or abused?
There is support for women leaving , there is a welfare state that supports women on their own.

Greenstocking - so if the woman stays...what?
Abusers don't particularly care for consequences, why do you think they continue to be abusive when their partner leaves? This whole thread is about a woman & child being killed by an ex . Stay or go, the focus should be on the abusers behaviour and not how hard the woman did or didn't try to get away.

Do you have any idea the courage it takes to leave an abuser? I think you have little clue as to the real world greenstocking.

In this case the poor woman was abused by him for years before she left and even had a child with him.

It IS possible that if she had left as soon as she found out he was a violent drug dealer it would not have happened - we will never know but it is less likely he would seek out and murder a woman he'd known for only a very short time.

I;m not blaming her ,before the abuse on here starts.

sorry, courage is the wrong word there.

'You know, when a woman posts that her husband has shagged around everyone on MN screams, " Leave the bastard!!! "

Why do we not do the same with those who post to say they have been hit or abused? '

eh? the vast majority of MN is far more uncompromising in telling people to leave when they have been abused. There will generally be one or two dissenting voices who say 'give him another chance' but not half as many as there are when he's shagged around.

Geekcool.

Do you read any of my posts?

How are you not apportioning some blame to her though? Saying she 'even' had a child with him, as if well how silly of her and what did she expect.
In fact, you barely mention his responsibility as a member of society to behave accordingly, dismissing him based on being a drug dealer. It's him who should have modified his behaviour. HE should have had anger management etc.

Unfortunately, yes I do read them.

It's not all physical violence though is it? It's not as simple as your husband just suddenly hitting you for no reason.

Here's an example. Your husband calls you at work and he sounds angry. You ask him what's wrong and he says he doesn't know. Then he says he's sorry and hangs up. Ten minutes later he calls you again and then grills you on every second of time you've been away from him. Who did you speak to? How did you get to work? What are you doing on your lunch break? Etc. You mention a conversation with a male colleage. Later that evening he questions you again about that male colleage but quickly snaps out of it and says he's sorry, he's had a hard day and starts joking about something unrelated. That night he wakes up and says he's been having nightmares about you cheating on him. That week he insists on driving you to work even though it means he's got to go very far out of his way. At the weekend you go to meet a friend for lunch. Halfway through you spot your husband sitting in his car on the street outside the restaurant watching you. By the time you get outside, he's gone. When you ask him about it, he says he happened to be driving past and someone called him so he had to pull over. Then he starts a argument by saying you spend too much money at the hairdressers.

That's how it starts. It gets gradually worse over months or years. It can happen to anyone.

Greenstocking, when you say "easier to sling abuse than read and engage", who do you mean? Who is slinging abuse at you?

I have read and engaged with your posts, as have several others on this thread. How is it that you perceive yourself as being abused rather than listened to?

And Alouise: I, like GeekCool, am really puzzled by your statement that we need to recognise not all men are abusive and not all women are doormats. Again, I don't think anyone at all has said that is the case. Because, it being fundamentally absurd, I can't imagine many people believe it. So is that not a bit of a straw man?

Baffling stuff.

Geekcool.

He was a nasty scumbucket who doesn't deserve to draw breath, surely that's a given?

I do think we ALL have a responsibility to protect ourselves and make wise choices. Do I think it's wise to have children with a man who beats you? Do I need to answer that?

When I was at uni, years ago there was a very unpleasant bloke on the fringes of my social circle. He was unfaithful, aggressive and known to be handy with his fists after a few pints. Women flocked round him. He was , " exciting" apparently. My lovely best friend didn't have a girlfriend for years as he was, " too nice". Some women will date men despite knowing they are nasty and abusive.

Do some women need to take a look at their own attitudes and choices? Of course they do.

so often domestic violence only starts once the woman is pregnant, by which time she simply doesn't have the option of cutting all ties, because he gets access to the child.

the wives stay and simper a bit and life goes on.

with regards to the WAGS, they love the lifestyle, the fame and the money wayyyy more than they hate the humiliation and the infidelity

In addition to all which has been posted, sometimes the police etc really DO have their hands tied. I see DV forms everyday I work, they come in regularly to the HV office because if there are children in the home it's figured we will be having contact already. Many many forms end with the victim refusing to make a statement to police. Obviously if there are visible injuries the perpetrator will be arrested anyway but it's hard to deal with when no other evidence is forthcoming.
This is not blaming the victim, no woman deserves to be the recipient of violence but just saying it is not always clear cut. Abusers are manipulative and clever and many women fear the consequences of making that statement.

I cannot tell you the number of men who text that they will do x, y or z when they don't have any intention of doing so but it helps keep the push for power up a bit.
The skill is not so much in arresting everyone who makes stupid threats but assessing those most likely to carry out the threats and from my experience that is not always easy to determine. Our local police tend to be pretty good on that score. We are fortunate locally to have an excellent women's centre who work well with the police and local agencies to support women in this situation.

There are many factors we don't know in this particular case.

Was this a "safe" house? Meaning - were there safety and security measures in place - locally we can get CCTV, fire proof letter boxes, reinforced glass and even a safe room in a house. We can get all this in place quickly too.
Were DV agencies involved to support this poor woman?
Was she offered re-housing away from the area? Many women decline because their children go to school, family live nearby etc etc.

Lots of unanswered questions still.

IF this had all been done then we need to ask if he broke in or if the victim let him in - and these men are VERY good at manipulation so even IF she let him in it does not excuse what then happened.

In reality this shit should have been locked up long ago - in the serious cases I have been involved with this is exactly what has happened and then women supported to give evidence.