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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

424 replies

sundayrose10 · 07/06/2011 01:56

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

OP posts:
jasper · 08/06/2011 18:32

"Old bat" - you both use this in a very patronising, superior and judgemental way. "You stupid young things"

You could not be more wrong. I am sorry you assumed this but it is so very far from the truth

I call my self an old bat as a put down to myself, not as some kind of back handed compliment

millie30 · 08/06/2011 18:35

Jasper, when people post that they would never end up in a violent relationship, or that they don't know why these women stay or have children these men, they are putting some of the responsibility for the situation onto the victims, whether intentional or not.

We similar on some of the threads about rape. There are always posters whose default position is to pull apart and question the behaviour of the victim, instead of placing the blame where it really belongs.

jasper · 08/06/2011 18:35

"Do you think a woman who is walking late at night and gets raped is somehow at fault? Do you think a child who is abducted is somehow at fault because they spoke to their perpetrator and got in the car? Or even in this scenario, that is is the mother's fault for letting the child go out on their ow"

How could you possibly think ANYONE here ( you seemed to be asking me , but I may be wrong) would think yes to any of those questions?

millie30 · 08/06/2011 18:36

We see similar

jasper · 08/06/2011 18:54

Millie I absolutely DO NOT put ANY responsibility, (even unintentionally !) on to the victims . I cannot stress that strongly enough and I sincerely apologise if anyone got that impression, but it was never ever implied .

I want the word to get out there from those who have been sucked into abusive relationships exactly how it happens.

THAT's my reason for asking why women get drawn into that shit. ANd then stay in it.

I am seeking to understand, not to criticise.

Those who have posted harrowing stories have been extremely eloquent in answering the question "why do women stay in violent relationships". We need the word to get out there of how it can happen, inch by inch.

and Thumbwitch, thanks for the advice a few feet back !

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 19:37

Jasper and anyone else who wants to understand how abuse creeps up on you, go back and read the accounts of DV posted here, including mine.

First, your friends and family are alienated from you over a long period of time by various means. Your safety net (and also the people who would tell you to GET OUT) has been removed. My ex removed mine by keeping me away from them physically, or tagging along to events and outings. He then started to insinuate he didnt like them, he didnt feel they were "good for me" etc.

Then, the emotional and mental abuse slowly begins. You are made to feel stupid, worthless, fat, ugly, useless etc.

Finally the physical and sexual abuse. By this point you believe you deserve it, it becomes so normal to you that you almost begin to crave being hit, raped, punished as that is how your partner shows his "love" for you...

I was lucky, I woke up and realised what was happening before it was too late. Many many women do not until it is too late.

I still flinch every time my DF raises a hand or his voice, even though he has never raised it to me.

Im sorry if this post is too blunt for some, but previous posters have asked how and why you would stay in this kind of relationship.

michelleseashell · 08/06/2011 20:27

I think jasper has been quite open to trying to understand the idea. It IS hard to get unless you've been in that situation. When I told my husband about it, he believed me but he did say to me 'but you wouldn't let me talk to you like that'. And he's right. I wouldn't. Because we're in a normal healthy relationship. I think he can't comprehend just how bad it really was.

I think it's really important to stress that it can happen to anyone. It's dangerous to think it couldn't. There are people out there who are more devious and manipulative than you would credit a human being with capable of and we all need to be very wary. Plus it's reductive to some of our experiences to suggest that we are somehow weaker and more vulnerable to it than others.

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 20:32

You're totally right Michelleseashell. I wouldnt take that shit from DF, but thats because I'm not scared of him!

Apologies Jasper, I'm not picking on you, I posted your name as you had asked for examples in the post above mine.

michelleseashell · 08/06/2011 20:41

It's so strange isn't it mumofaflump? I can remember admitting to him that things happened when I knew, I absolutely knew they hadn't. I can't even explain now why I did it. He just talked me in riddles until I didn't know what was going on anymore.

FreudianSlipper · 08/06/2011 20:42

if you want to read a book that helps you understand dv then Lundy Bancroft's book is great as it describes many different personality types and how they use their personality to abuse. he has worked with abusive men for many years so has a very good insight into how their minds work. like i said before stories are different, many have a similar pattern but not all, the relationship dynamics are different.

i think its important for all women to become more aware of abusive behaviour and i can now see subtle signs in other people relationships (maybe not always) but can i say i will never be involved in another abusive relationship, no unless i stay single for the rest of my life. i just hope that my knowledge and previous experience (that's what got me out before having lived with my step dads abuse and knowing it does not ever get better only worse) i hope this will lead me to see the truth and move on quickly

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 20:48

It is rather strange! My ex would go ballistic if another guy looked at me yet he used to encourage me to wear short skirts. I remember one night we had a row, he slapped me and I walked out of the pub we were in. He caught me up and convinced me to give him a chance to talk it through. I drove him back to his barracks (thank god we didnt live together). Once there he sweet-talked me, and yes, talked riddles round me, til I ended up in bed with him.

It only occured to me after I left that he had gotten everything he wanted that night. A lift home and a shag. Hitting me was probably a bonus.

FreudianSlipper · 08/06/2011 20:55

thats quite common as abusive men see you as their property, so wearing short skirts/low cut tops when out with him is fine then it is also fine to punish you if you were getting lots of admiring looks, because of course you want these and were teasing the other men to make him look stupid

michelleseashell · 08/06/2011 21:03

Sounds so familiar! My ex used to encourage me to talk to him about previous relationships only to then start bullying me about some minor detail I'd mentioned. It was like he was trying to make himself jealous. It was like he was trying to torture himself.

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 21:06

FreudianSlipper - That was exactly it. I was a whore for dresing like a slut, so obviously I wanted to, and deserved to be treated as such. Yet I was actively encouraged to act and dress like it as it bigged him up in front of his mates.

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 21:07

Exactly Michelle!

thumbwitch · 08/06/2011 21:13

jasper - you're welcome - I hope you never need it though!

FreudianSlipper · 08/06/2011 21:16

you get so confused you jsut do not know what to do. once my ex told a man in a night club that he was my friend and i really liked him next thing i know he is sending over a drink and comes and chats to me, my ex was hiding and i felt so sorry for this man and had to explain it was his idea of a stupid joke. then on the way home he started an argument, claimed the guy had told him i was looking at him, pulled my top down as we were walking along the road, he then pushed me out of the hotel bedroom door when i got out of the shower. then of course it was one big joke i felt so down that his loving attention made me feel better - and that is the trap :(

michelleseashell · 08/06/2011 21:18

I don't feel sorry for them but just imagine how awful it must be to be them. They must suffer so much. My ex is truly twisted. I don't think he'll ever be happy or have a normal relationship.

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 21:24

I facebook stalk my ex (he has a habit of showing up in my life so I like to know where he is at all times. Currently on tour in Afghanistan so I can rest easy for 6 months).

His current relationship is in tatters. He had a house and daughter with her though. Sad

michelleseashell · 08/06/2011 21:27

I used to cringe if someone attractive came on the tv. I knew it would mean an interrogation. He very rarely hit me for a long time. Instead he would goad me and goad me by calling me every name under the sun and then coming right up to me and screaming in my face. Then when I'd push him away from me because I was frightened, he'd slap me or throw me across the room. Then he'd somehow convince me that I started it and he was just trying to defend himself. He'd even tell our friends in front of me that I was violent but he was sticking by me. God, it all sounds so obvious now!

michelleseashell · 08/06/2011 21:34

Oh no. I hope things work out ok for his new partner and their little girl. At least he's away a lot.

Mumofaflump · 08/06/2011 21:35

Am breaking convention here.

Sod it.

(((Hugs))) to everyone in/has been in this situation.

All looks so obvious looking back from the safety of a stable, functional relationship doesn't it?

FreudianSlipper · 08/06/2011 21:38

oh yes i had that too. and when he was arrested because i had the nerve to fight back and he was covered in scratches the police told me it would be a waste of time to press charges and to sort it out between us. i was in hospital at the time suffering from concussion

i know it does but you have to remember if it was all so obvious you would not have been there. i spent a long time punishing myself for letting myself get there :( i don't anymore

Hassled · 08/06/2011 21:39

I have nothing constructive to add - I just feel the need to tell those of you who have come through these relationships that I'm in awe of your courage. You should be so immensely proud of yourselves, all of the time. The strength you've shown is breathtaking.

I was going to say I've been lucky - but that somehow gives some sort of normality to DV, doesn't it? It's not that I've been lucky - you've just had the worst luck imaginable, and I'm sorry.

FreudianSlipper · 08/06/2011 21:43

agree hugs are needed at times

(((Hugs))) to all women who have been through it and especially those who are suffering now and i wish one day very very soon you have the strength to leave/press charges or whatever way you get out

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