Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

[sundayrose10]

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

Good point about the CS gas, Dittany. The police arrived about an hour before the shots were fired in the case in the op - why didn't they teargas the place immediately? Why wait until the shots were fired before storming the house, when it was blindingly obviously too late?

thumbwitch - haha, I know. If only we had flogging in this country (they really do beat them with a stick, ahem) like they do in some others.....I bet loads of people will be lining up to "administer" it!!! Solitary is actually pretty bad from what some with experience of it (either unfairly so or otherwise) say. It truly does your head in - not having any human contact. The guards shove your food in through a hatch and don't even stop to yell at you. It's like a very cold, frozen hell. But they get quite damaged when they get let out apparently so it isn't a great idea to release them to the public domain.
Sadly, nowadays, the police outcome is pretty much like that for these scenarios....I really don't hold much hope that the system or the law protects victims - it would have been far safer and more successful for her to take all her kids and flee, even if they had to leave their friends and family behind. Better safe and homesick than dead.

The very first early warning signs of potential DV really are tiny. So much so that it's impossible to tell in most cases, whether something is sinister, or a misunderstanding, or genuinely well-meaning. So many threads on mumsnet where people complain about a relatively small annoying incident with their husband or boyfriend or partner, which could be nothing, but could be a red flag. And yet if you dare to say "Is he controlling in other ways at all?" you get leaped on, called man-hating, hysterical.

It's a few pages back now but someone asked "if everyone knows that DV starts with small incidents and ends in violence, why wouldn't you just leave when the small incidents start happening?" - because, aside from the fact the small incidents are really hard to spot, not everyone knows this. In fact most people don't seem to be aware of this AT ALL. Twilight - which was seemingly written with a handbook of "red flags for domestic violence" and as many included as possible - is one of the most popular films/books around, with many otherwise intelligent women claiming that Edward is their "perfect man". The kind of behaviours which are known to be red flags by those who have studied DV or seen a lot of DV cases, are often considered romantic, or caring, or thoughtful.

I agree that the perpetrators' behaviour needs to be addressed first and foremost, but that doesn't have to be at the expense of educating society in general about the early warning signs of DV.

Edward makes my skin crawl. And I didn't know that about the book.

Jasper - I see things as you do and I am also an old bat.
I wonder if some women need or desire men/relationships more than others? I am married ( happily) but am not reliant on him in any real way and we lead fulfilled and independent lives too. I've never needed or wanted hearts and flowers and someone wanting to be with me all the time would creep me out.

In our area the DV and Hate Crimes dept is comprised of just six police officers. They receive in the region of 150 DV1 reports a week!

Not defending the police in this case but clearly DV needs to be given a higher priority.

Jasper, you'd be taking the words right out of my mouth before it happened to me. Everyone thinks they're too on the ball for it to happen to them. Brainwashing is the best description of it yet. I suppose no one ever thinks they'd join a cult, but people do.

"Old bat" - you both use this in a very patronising, superior and judgemental way. "You stupid young things"

You both keep saying that it would never happen to you. Do you think a woman who is walking late at night and gets raped is somehow at fault? Do you think a child who is abducted is somehow at fault because they spoke to their perpetrator and got in the car? Or even in this scenario, that is is the mother's fault for letting the child go out on their own?

As others have said, it is not as clear cut as "wanting" or "needing" to be loved. The controlling does begin very subtly, it creeps upon you and you have no idea it is happening.
I met my ex partner when I was 14 and was very much independent (as independent as a 14 year old can be). In my case xdp was besotted with me, he was proud to show me off as his other half. The violence started after I had ds1, the night before we moved into our first house - he had been out drinking, came home and threw me all around the flat smashing furniture, boxes and me in the process. I did throw him out and I meant it. However, it was the first time it had happened in the four years we had been together, I was only 18 and he had been amazing prior to that incident.
We worked at making things work for the sake of our son and things did improve (or so I thought at the time), looking back now our working it out gave him the ability to control me even more as we were "both" working hard to appease each other. Within a year, I had no friends other than him, contact with my family was nigh on nothing - because that's how he wanted it. I would fear him coming home from work incase my housework wasn't up to scratch. I had to explain to the last penny what I had spent and if there was 20p unaccounted for I would be interregated until I remembered.
To the outside world xdp was the ideal partner, he was attentive, would do anything and everything for me and a complete charmer. Nobody knew what he was really like as my contact with the outside world had been slowly diminished.
He regularly "flipped" out, but by this point I was convinced (by him) that no-one else would want me being "used" goods with a son - this was ramped up when he got me pregnant again and I really felt that was my life.
Breaking the cycle was the hardest thing ever and if i'm honest as I mentioned in my previous post, that cycle still isn't completely severed. He STILL controls me and puts the fear of god into me 10 years on.
The police regularly attended my house during the time I was with him, they would take him away - I would clean up the mess left behind, he would arrive back at my house after calming down crying, begging for forgiveness a place to stay until he could find somewhere else. and so it began again.
The last straw was the night he woke my sons up in the middle of the night, sat them down and called me for everything under the sun. I knew i had to get them out of this situation. He smashed my house to pieces, cut my telephone line, hung my dog by its collar on the washing line to try to make me open the back door for him to get in. Thankfully the police were called by a neighbour and again he was removed, this time i refused to let him back. But he kept coming, I sought a non-molestation order which he broke on a number of occasions, but all the police did was remove him until the next time.
He deliberately rented a house 5 doors away from me claiming there was nothing else available - leaving me petrified, i would receive texts messages from him telling me he had seen me come in or go out, or nice dress etc etc. I was trapped in my own house more so than when I was with him.
He broke in one day and forced himself on me resulting in me falling pregnant to him (im ashamed to admit I had a termination which he accompanied me for)
I had death threats - directly and indirectly all reported to the police.... text messages logged with the police and social services (as there was concern for their safety) and nothing was done.
He has made out that it is me who is the nut case in all of this, that he was driven to it by my behaviour and everyone seems to believe him.
Having moved house, changed mobile numbers twice, set up home with someone else and had two girls you would think i am now free - i am not. He now gets at me through my sons. My eldest who is now 13 sides completely with his dad, he understands why dad did what he did.
I nearly choked on my sunday dinner when they were 7 and 9 and the youngest asked "why did you murder my brother or sister? If you didn't want any more children why did you kill my full brother or sister but still go on to have my HALF sisters?"
As far as both of my sons are concerned i am the bike of Braintree - I was slagging it about and that is the reason me and their dad are no longer together, the beatings and police involvement was down to what I put their dad through. They honestly believe that one day I will see sense and will get back with their dad - even when the abuse is directed at them from their dad, they make excuses for him, just how I once did the cycle continues and no doubt my sons will grow up to think that the way their dad behaves is the way you treat women.
As I said previously the police and social services do not want to know. This man has convictions for violence and armed robbery. He has spelt out that he is willing to do a long stretch inside and take me or dh out, but no one takes us seriously.
Obviously I have only briefly skirted over the full extent of the experience I have had of dv..... I am not the "type" of person to put up with any of this, but I got sucked in and still to this day cannot get out!

I think there is a serious problem in how other people deal with DV - and I mean friends, family, the system etc.
There is this narrative in our culture that somehow a marriage is worth saving if you have children. So many articles and stats about how children do best with 2 parents, hatred towards single mothers, pressure to take 'couple counselling' to get through it, how 'you owe it to your children' to try and work it out, the divorce process itself, the court process being stacked against the woman. All these things put the blame firmly at the woman's door - she is the one who wants to break up the family. He loves her and is really trying to change.

I can't count the number of people who have said to me "you are going to work it out though aren't you?" even when they know what he has/is doing.

this is my idea:

we live in an age of female barristers, judges, police officers and solicitors; we've come so far in many ways, and yet the patriarchal nature of the judiciary is preventing justice from being done, and female victims of domectic violence are treated as second class citizens from the off.

we need to collectively reject the current system and set up our own rival courts, campaigning and insisting that violent partners and rapists are tried by us, the very same women who suffer at their hands. Female courts for male defendants, that's my two cents. I can envisage a great amount of resistance to the idea, then a period of transition and finally acceptance.

Intergalactichussy - interesting idea - it could work but only if the female professionals you have involved haven't already been browbeaten by the patriarchal system (still smarting from being told to "get over it" by a senior female medic when faced with persistent sexual harassment at work, including death threats, because she had to put up with it when she was younger)

too true thumbwitch. we'd certainly have thousands of years of engrained self-hatred to overcome. But that's all the more reason to try. How awful for you.

Actually Brainless because you had your children at such a young age you are, statistically, far more likely to be a victim of Dv.

babybarrister the point is that there is simply not true that "there is violence at the end of the majority of relationships".

If you meant something different to what you said, why not say so. Rather than continuing to attempt to prop up your original post? If you meant something other than what you said, or worded it badly, can you say so? Because you should not be continuing to defend your original statement that it is normal and usual for a relationship to end in violence when it is absolutely not.

Unless you do genuinely believe that the majority of relationships end in violence. Do you believe that?

Babybarrister - I just want to ask whether the violence that you mention is generally listed as "assault" rather than anything else?
The reason I ask is because my brother's ex had him done for assault on two occasions after she left him. Once because he grabbed hold of her arms to stop her chucking all his paperwork all over the room; and the other time because he grabbed hold of her coat to prevent her from entering the house against his permission, which she needed (he had already been granted an injunction against her entering without permission). So - neither of these "assaults" constituted actual violence or physical harm, but both are legal assaults.

And because of this, I'm asking the question above.

God I'm stupid - sorry, not "legal assaults" - legally defined as assaults!

"Yes I do believe that in the majority of relationships where the parties actually attend court in any form whatsoever to resolve a "family law" issue, that there has been some violence,"

Why didn't you say that then?

You're original post read most bizarrely and if it was what you actually believed raised a whole raft of issues.